To think free family/ grandparent childcare should be banned?

[KnightlyMyMan]

This is a topic I keep seeing pop up and I can see both sides so wanted to throw it up for discussion.

Reasons I agree;

• It’s a HUGE and unfair financial advantage for those of us who have unpaid/ free childcare over those who don’t! It’s basically luck of the draw over whether you get to avoid £700-£900 full time nursery fees per child! In every other area of life it seems society is making it less acceptable to discriminate due to family financial status (uni funding - blind interviews) but ‘unpaid internships’ and ‘free childcare’ are two big remaining issues!

• It takes away jobs and is detrimental to the economy. (If all the children currently being looked after by family were in nursery more money would be spent, contributing to the economy, and more staff would be needed, creating jobs.)

But equally, as someone who does have free grandparent childcare lined up - of course I want to save (huge amounts) of cash and I trust my parents implicitly, no one would care for my kids better! Why should I give my children to strangers (even professionally trained ones) or fork out money I don’t need to?

The topic of childcare came up at work the other day and there was a definite ‘bloody alright for some’ attitude from those colleagues paying for childcare. It seems to be a subject that divides people very strongly!

Communist ideas like this are dangerous and stupid. Equality of worth is one thing to aim for in society, equality of circumstance is quite another and to pursue it is the road to ruin.

@KnightlyMyMan
Havinv my mum available to offer free childcare was one of the deciding factors when we considered whether we were financially stable enough for a baby. If we didn't i wouldn't have had a baby yet.

People decide to have babies whenever they want. They know nursery fees are expensive, it shouldn't be a suprise to anyone.they also have an idea if they will have family to help out.

Life isn’t fair though. Some people will have extended family who can help, some people will be lone parents with no support, some people will be disabled, some people will be Carers.
I’d support subsidised childcare but you can’t tell family they can’t look after family that’s just daft.

Childcare should be cheaper. We live in another EU country, slightly lower standard of living but not massively, and pay 200 a month for full time childcare. Meal and two generous snacks paid separately for under 5 a day. We couldn't afford to have a child in the UK, let alone two.

Are you drunk OP?

Some things in life are unfair and people will have advantages over people in all kinds of situations. You're being ridiculous.

I think you should ban people having children. It's unfair on those who can't.
And you should ban children living with their parents. It's unfair on orphans.

It doesn’t make any sense op.

Personally, I feel that many who get free childcare ‘pay’ for it in other ways anyway.

I know dozens of people who use grandparent care (I used to be one of them). I don’t know anyone, literally not one, where it’s all worked out great.

There are always gripes, arguements, stress and bad feeling caused IME, to varying degrees - from daily irritation/mild sniping about sweets volume to full blown family fall outs over real or imagined liberties and faults.

At the very least it seems to always introduce a level of awkwardness to the relationship - grandparents not wanting to say they think xyz is done wrong or parents thinking grandparents are overstepping but not liking to say because it’s free.

I benefited from 5 years of free care and have now been paying for 5 years...I would rather pay a professional any day of the week! So much easier all round, no loss of control, no awkwardness or stress.

To ban family childcare is not a communist idea, I very much doubt that any communist country has ever done that and I doubt anyone with communist ideas thinks that is a good idea. it is just ridiculous and I do not believe that anyone thinks there is a debate or that something should be done about this (apart from the OP).

On the other hand childcare should be subsidized by the government (or at least part of it), as it happens with other basics such as education or healthcare. It is ridiculous that you have to spend thousands and thousands in childcare in the first few years. It is actually sad to see how people see this as completely normal and don't realize the UK has one of the most expensive childcare systems in the world...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42966047

This thread amuses me.

As it's phrased "It's unfair some people have granny/grandad/auntie to do the childcare free and some aren't; should granny/etc childcare be banned?" posters rightly say how unreasonable/irrational/police state/communist/microchip state etc it is. Goodness me, how they say it.

But if it had been phrased "It's unfair some people have granny/grandad/auntie to do the childcare free and some aren't; shouldn't the government provide free state childcare and/or pay for all private childcare?" it would have got a better response, even though what's the difference? I should like to see the response of every poster on this thread to that.

By the same logic you would also ban parents giving their adult children money for deposit on a house (or at all!) or letting their adult children live at home.

I’m speaking as someone who’s parents will never be able to help me buy a house, who moved into private rented accommodation after uni, and who lives hundreds of miles from either parent so if I did have kids zero chance of childcare! And yes it’s unfair but you can’t and shouldn’t attempt to create total fairness by legislation. Some things of course everyone should have access to but other things are non-essential and come down to luck.

@ADropofReality - The difference is the restriction on individual freedoms.

It's undeniably a good thing that the state offers free education to children but home education isn't banned. Similarly free childcare provision would be great but that doesn't mean alternatives should be made illegal.

The second issue is then whether greater provision of free childcare is a necessary use of state resources.

This is clearly a ridiculous idea but I wish I lived somewhere where childcare was £700-900 full time! It’s £1800 where I live! I think childcare should be subsidised like it is in most European countries.
I have a number of friends who were gifted over 500k in property or to buy a house one friend was gifted a 1.5 mil house. I think that’s given them a much bigger advantage than my family helping us out with childcare two days a week.

OP I think YANBU to be bitter about the cost of childcare that you are paying whilst you see others saving, but it really wouldn't put everyone in the country on an even keel anyway if you banned free childcare.

My DM was working FT when I had mine but retired when my 2 siblings had dc, but she made it clear she could not do regular childcare beyond school pickups/drop offs. She has a few friends that offered their dc to have the dgc a day or two per week to help reduce costs, but this has morphed into them having them FT and whilst they love them dearly they resent it greatly. As a pp said there are still costs attached, even if they are not financial.

This is nonsense

My ILs look after my DD and they love doing it. If we were to ban GPs providing free childcare then we would also need to do the following to make it ‘fair’.

Ban parents providing money for their kids to go to uni - as not all parents can afford this. I didn’t get given any money go to uni

Ban parents giving their children money for house deposit/first car/paying for driving lessons/wedding - I had to pay for this all myself

Ban any form of inheritance as not everyone gets any inheritance - both my parents are dead and there was zero estate

Surely it would be better to make nurseries state-run and therefore free, like schools?

That way everyone has access to childcare, regardless of their family situation, but people could choose family members instead if they wanted to.

You should try finding childcare that can accommodate a child with special needs, impossible as no setting wants to make the adjustments needed. Yes life is so unfair. At least with a neurotypical child you have the option of paying for mainstream childcare, think your selves lucky! The needs of our child are so consuming that we never get a break.

Only second most ridiculous threads fro. the one where a women's friend had taken her resusable tesco bag. Gwt a grip, this doesn't even make sense. You clearly have a v poor grasp if economics and why they give free places.

Just don't brag about your free childcare to your colleagues OP and you're problem there should be resolved.

The only time I see people on MN talking about unfair free childcare is when let's say older sister had her kids their grandmother watched them til they started school, but when younger sister had hers no free childcare was offered by the grandmother.

How ridiculous. I have ‘free’ childcare and yes comments are made but my responses are as follows:

1. I still pay for childcare part of the week
2. We’ve been advised not to have our child in FT childcare outside family for health reasons
3. We work around my mother’s holidays etc... so we use annual leave to cover days she can’t do

There are pros and cons to each situation. Yes we’re extremely lucky, but we offset it in other ways and don’t have the same flexibility as other childcare arrangements.

Such a ridiculous, pathetic debate!

I don’t have a car - I don’t drive. I don’t go around saying others that do have an unfair advantage over me because I have to walk/use public transport... should I insist that everyone be banned from owning a car?

I think anyone who agrees that free family childcare be banned, needs to grow the F up and get a grip!

I think there is a childcare problem in U.K., but your OP comes at it from the wrong angle. The fact is that childcare here is ridiculously unaffordable for many families, and causes huge financial losses for those who can and can’t afford it. It’s also an issue for sexual inequality in income/work, because overwhelmingly its women who quit jobs, leave their career, drop responsibilities at work etc to provide childcare. If you’re lucky enough to have a network of friends/family to help you navigate this, that’s great for you! If not, you’ve got a massive hit on your finances now and in the future.

Personally, i have no family around. When I first had children I spent £1600 a month on childcare, which meant one of us was working ‘for nothing’. Since they started school, I abandoned my career completely and found work around school times. It’s not about ‘luck’, it’s a very real problem that so many women are faced with, and has implications for their income, wealth, pension contributions, financial independence.

I don’t think the answer is to make the situation even worse by banning family members providing ‘free’ childcare. That’s just going to make the situation far worse. I do think we should be addressing it as a society by providing government funded affordable childcare. Other countries have managed it, it’s not a situation without solutions.

It also raises questions about the wider issue of (overwhelmingly women) providing free care; working and contributing to society without any financial reward.

It’s not a stupid question, it’s not a stupid topic.

Life is unfair.
I became unusually incensed when a client cheerfully told me about her daughter's enviable childcare arrangements. Basically there is a nanny college where I live and trainees will go into people's homes for experience. The deal is there has to be a parent present on the premises so not suitable for anyone who, you know, goes out to work. But the mother is a gp and the father a financial whizz who works from home. So high earners. And they get to have free childcare at home while he is tapping on the computer.

I know that's nothing to do with family childcare but it's another example of life's little unfairnesses.