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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to feel a bit shit for TM?

282 replies

AndWhat · 12/12/2018 08:03

Imagine achieving your life dream of becoming PM, being left to organise a shitstorm and then a load of your staff telling you you’re shit at organising shit and you get voted out.
I don’t think anyone who was brought in to lead brexit following Cameron’s hash up would have done a decent job and yet all TM will be known for is failing to manage brexit!

OP posts:
AdamNichol · 12/12/2018 09:19

But any experienced politician with half a brain would have ensured a sensible referendum question requiring a higher majority, and/or a second vote.
No argument with that. The result surprised many, but that doesn't excuse them for not planning for the loss.

Babycham1979 · 12/12/2018 09:19

She voted remain (and quietly 'supported' it) because she thought it would win. The woman believes in little, other than her own, and her awful Party's, God-given right to lead. She's a malfunctioning weathervane that tries to follow the prevailing wind, but can't.

She's not only a moral vacuum, but an intellectual one. 'Citizens of nowhere', ffs. Straight out of the Goebbels playbook.

LadyRochfordsFrostedGusset · 12/12/2018 09:19

Yanbu and I'm not a Tory voter.

GreenEggsHamandChips · 12/12/2018 09:20

I admire TM integrity but her political nouse is shockingly awful.

Calling an election when she did was about the most stupidest divisive thing ever. The fact that all the pundits thought it was a good idea goes to show how divorced Westminster had become from the real world.

That one decision (and an alliance with the DUP) has been the thing that has stuffed up Brexit.

So how do you trust someone who has already shown her lack of political know how, when she says this is the best deal she can get?

Alltheprettyseahorses · 12/12/2018 09:20

Cameron didn't have to hold a referendum. There was no great public appetite for one - quite the opposite. It was because of the anti-EU frothers in his own party. Of course, the current narrative is somewhat different from historical accuracy.

IAmNotAWitch · 12/12/2018 09:21

She must have a strong sense of duty.

In her shoes i would have told you lotto shove it and walked out the door.

Flaps of steel indeed.

Lizzie48 · 12/12/2018 09:21

I do feel sorry for her, as it always was a poisoned chalice and she was never going win whatever she did. Cameron disappeared into the sunset, and the Brexiteers talked a good talk but didn't have the guts to 'walk the walk'.

But it's the Tory party, what else did she expect???

LaurieMarlow · 12/12/2018 09:21

I think that chequers is a reasonable response to an impossible question. It's certainly better than anything I'd expect the arch brexiteers to deliver.

Where she has fucked up massively has been ..

Not facing down the arch brexiteers and allowing them to spread chaos in the background

Taking every opportunity going to kick the can down the road. And that's what's prompted the vote.

Ellie56 · 12/12/2018 09:22

I feel sorry for her, this was the job no-one else wanted and she has got on with it. If I was her I would be tempted to sashay out of number 10 tonight , bottle of gin under one arm and two fingers in the air declaring "Do it yourself then”

Grin Grin

Maldives2006 · 12/12/2018 09:22

No it would have spread the responsibility also we would have had the best from the parties for example Kier Stammer, Yvette Cooper

HopefullyAnonymous · 12/12/2018 09:22

If I was her I’d have been signed off with stress months ago Grin

KatherinaMinola · 12/12/2018 09:23

She did some diabolical things whilst at the home office. At the end of the day she's going to be rich and comfortable in the worst case scenario. Unlike some of her deportees...

GreenEggsHamandChips · 12/12/2018 09:24

Oh yeah Cameron was an absolute shit. He should never have held the referendum and hes treatment of the most shocking in society was callous and horrific.

Yoyooo · 12/12/2018 09:25

She is evil

AdamNichol · 12/12/2018 09:25

It's interesting to see the 2 different narratives of TM.

There's TM the sacrificial lamb who bravely stepped up to the plate and took the mantel when no one else would. Has done what she can to appease all sides and will now soldier on to the end despite mortal wounds from friend and foe alike.

Or

TM the egotist, who battled her way into No 10, eliminating the competition; and has since bulldozed on regardless of mounting discord over her direction.

Reality is somewhere in between. She knew the landscape when she fought to be leader. And she did fight for it. she didn't however, have to fight some of the more anticipated names.

LaurieMarlow · 12/12/2018 09:26

I want Keir Starmer as PM (Yvette won't do it). But see no way this can be made possible.

juneau · 12/12/2018 09:26

Cameron didn't have to hold a referendum. There was no great public appetite for one - quite the opposite. It was because of the anti-EU frothers in his own party.

Well there was an appetite - there was always a big Eurosceptic wing of the Con party - and don't forget about the rise of UKIP. They actually stole a lot of votes from the Conservatives before the Cons promised a meaningful vote on membership of the EU and the Cons only won the GE in 2015 so convincingly because they'd promised a referendum.

I agree with this though any experienced politician with half a brain would have ensured a sensible referendum question requiring a higher majority, and/or a second vote. Plus, don't forget that the result of referendums is only advisory - the government didn't have to act on it - nor did they have to be so ridiculously hasty in filing Article 50. At that point, no one was sure what approach to take. So much of the past two years has been wasted in stumbling around and trying to agree what path to take.

Babycham1979 · 12/12/2018 09:27

AdamNichol, you could be right. However, the 'aw, poor lickle woman' narrative is offensive tosh. She's consistently shown appalling judgment, and I'm yet to hear someone convincingly argue she's not at least a little bit of a racist.

badlydrawnperson · 12/12/2018 09:28

Didn’t David Cameron just do ‘what the people wanted’....namely a referendum?

More people (by a considerable margin) voted for parties other than the shitty Tories at that and the subsequent elections, but due to our shit electoral system, we got the Tories.

Ironically, the referendum has far more legitimacy in terms of numbers than the wanky government that delivered it.

David Cameron only did it to try and stop Tories defecting to UKIP - it was never for us proles.

badlydrawnperson · 12/12/2018 09:30

On TM I feel sorry for her on a personal level - she doesn't seem utterly morally bankrupt like Thatcher was - but she's a Tory and she expouses and enacts evil policies that I don't support so it's hard to feel sympathy.

AdamNichol · 12/12/2018 09:31

Cameron didn't have to hold a referendum. There was no great public appetite for one
More people voted UKIP than Lib Dem and SNP combined. It's only the FPTP system that kept them from gaining MPs.
don't forget that the result of referendums is only advisory - the government didn't have to act on it
Absolutely, and it was hubris/ego as much as political manoeuvring against UKIP to specify in the referendum that it would be adhered to (though that isn't binding either, but bloody hard to go back on)

LaurieMarlow · 12/12/2018 09:31

They actually stole a lot of votes from the Conservatives before the Cons promised a meaningful vote on membership of the EU and the Cons only won the GE in 2015 so convincingly because they'd promised a referendum.

No one will truly know if that's the reason why UKIP votes dropped. The political tide may have simply turned as the economy got better.

Cameron wanted to use it to shut up the part eurosceptics once and for all. So that went well. Blush

AdamNichol · 12/12/2018 09:36

[UKIP]They actually stole a lot of votes from the Conservatives
And from Labour. Let's not forget that Labour had plenty of Tony Benn-esqu objectors to the 'anti-democratic' nature of the EU. In the Blair era, EU provided a useful mechanism for keeping the left happy with leftist laws whilst Blair et al could claim their hands were tied and avoid the blame from the right. However, there was no universal love for the EU from Lab.
UKIP were also a dumping ground for the disaffected who were fed up of 3 parties that essentially all said the same thing.

Crimson72 · 12/12/2018 09:37

Why didn't she hold her nerve - have the vote, lose it, call a general election and let the people decide it as a de facto referendum on her deal.

Because a general election wouldn't be a de facto referendum on her deal would it? It would be a referendum on choosing TM's deal or soft Brexit/remain (or whatever the Labour party stand for these days - I'm not entirely sure). Like it or not, a lot of people want neither.

oldmum22 · 12/12/2018 09:41

I feel sorry for TM on a personal level as the stress appears to have taken its toll and aged her. I don't know how she finds the energy to travel to Europe to seek help. I agree with the poster who said she should leave No 10 with some Gin under her arm and tell whoever is listening , you do it.
Her politics are questionable but no one can deny the stress she is under.