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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not care whether people say sex or gender.

999 replies

TeeJay1970 · 11/12/2018 21:48

Many people and organisations use these words interchangerbly. The meaning is always clear. I actually don't give a stuff if others disagree.

OP posts:
HestiaParthenos · 14/12/2018 22:45

But they can't be infants, because they are identifying as boys.

So women can identify out of oppression, but only once they're old enough to talk? Hmm

Well, that's the problem solved, then.

Have you answered the question what women have in common with transwomen but not with men, yet?

I only skimmed the thread, so perhaps didn't see it ...

Helmetbymidnight · 14/12/2018 22:46

The question was asked that what does a woman and a trans woman have in common. And the answer coukd be plenty

Oh dear you really did misunderstand!

It was what is this something that women (plural) - as a group have in common with transwomen (plural) that we don’t have in common with men.

Weetabixandshreddies · 14/12/2018 22:46

So women can identify out of oppression, but only once they're old enough to talk? hmm

Guess you would need to ask the poster who said this in the first place, rather than suggesting that it is my idea.

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 22:48

The question was asked

What do women as a class have in common with MTF trans people that they don't also have in common with men?

What you're describing is individual.

Weetabixandshreddies · 14/12/2018 22:49

It was what is this something that women (plural) - as a group have in common with transwomen (plural) that we don’t have in common with men

Maybe, discrimination?

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 22:49

Guess you would need to ask the poster who said this in the first place, rather than suggesting that it is my idea.

LOL it is your idea given that you claimed that rules them out of being "infants".

HestiaParthenos · 14/12/2018 22:50

Maybe, discrimination?

No. We have that in common with men of colour, Jewish men, gay men ... well, a lot of men.

Try again.

GenderIsAPrison · 14/12/2018 22:50

Not Rtft but

The question was asked that what does a woman and a trans woman have in common.

A woman and a trans woman are both human. A woman is an adult human female, a trans woman is a man claiming to be/ identifying as / pretending to be a woman by performing the sexist stereotype of one.

Not sure why the question was asked. Seems clear to me.

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 22:50

Maybe, discrimination?

What discrimination does Philip Bunce face?

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 22:53

Do you want to exclude Phil/Pips from the category of MTF trans person?

HestiaParthenos · 14/12/2018 22:53

Oh, good point. What discrimination do trans women as a class face?

I am thinking of Caitlin Jenner who to my knowledge still is proud winner of a sports event only open to males, but also became woman of the year.

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 22:53

I feel Stonewall would disagree.

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 22:54

That last to Weetabix

Helmetbymidnight · 14/12/2018 22:55

The question was asked that what does a woman and a trans woman have in common

That wasn’t the question but the answer was good.

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 22:55

Yes I'd also be interested to know what discrimination Caitlyn Jenner has ever faced.

Weetabixandshreddies · 14/12/2018 22:55

The question that was asked, that I was responding to was

We have a huge number of things we don’t have in common so I’d really love to hear some of those things women have in common with transwomen that they don’t have in common with men.

LOL it is your idea given that you claimed that rules them out of being "infants".

Yes because you started ranting at me that the point was about infanticide, and me not knowing what infanticide is, when clearly it wasn't about infanticide. Maybe read back your own posts and you will see.

Annandale · 14/12/2018 22:55

Ok then.

I don't think the meaning is clear and I think the lack of clarity has been exploited. But I do feel like a small minority there so you are probably right.

Weetabixandshreddies · 14/12/2018 22:59

Oh, good point. What discrimination do trans women as a class face?

Well, trans genderism is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act, as is sex, so I think we can deduce from that that being trans gender or trans sexual puts you at risk from discrimination.

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 22:59

because you started ranting at me that the point was about infanticide, and me not knowing what infanticide is, when clearly it wasn't about infanticide.

It really was. You read back. WTF do you think it was about?

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 23:01

Well, trans genderism is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act, as is sex, so I think we can deduce from that that being trans gender or trans sexual puts you at risk from discrimination.

It depends on how you define transgender, no? You do seem to have a touching amount of trust in authority and the law to call it right. Bless.

Avegemitesandwich · 14/12/2018 23:02

So are women and gay men 'the same' because they are both discriminated against? Does the fact that they are both discriminated against mean that gay men are women?

Because that is the argument you are putting across. Just because transwomen and women may both face discrimination does not mean that 'transwomen are women'. That is ludicrous.

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 23:03

Well, trans genderism is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act, as is sex,

Also, no. "Gender reassignment" is the protected characteristic.

GenderIsAPrison · 14/12/2018 23:07

yep. words have meaning....unless it is the word salads of trans, trans people, gender, gender identity, transsexual etc......in which case it is contradictory incoherent nonsense.....meanings based on reality matter. So people should care. QED.

Weetabixandshreddies · 14/12/2018 23:20

Also, no. "Gender reassignment" is the protected characteristic.

Still refers to trans women though, so the point remains "what discrimination do trans women face"?

So are women and gay men 'the same' because they are both discriminated against? Does the fact that they are both discriminated against mean that gay men are women?

Because that is the argument you are putting across. Just because transwomen and women may both face discrimination does not mean that 'transwomen are women'. That is ludicrous.

Where did I say any of the above? Where did anyone say that because women and gay men are both discriminated against that makes them both women? Where did I say that because both trans women and women face discrimination that means TWAW? Where have I said any of that?

The question asked by a PP was

Oh, good point. What discrimination do trans women as a class face?

My reply was that as gender reassignment is covered under the Equality Act they must face discrimination.

Why not read what was actually said, rather than what you think was said?

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2018 23:24

But according to you "trans women" have a GRC, right?