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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Scotland should be allowed to leave the UK and remain in the EU

527 replies

nickiredcar · 09/12/2018 06:34

New poll says that most Scots think they would be better off leaving the UK after brexit. It's time they had another vote right?

OP posts:
Nyx · 09/12/2018 20:50

Girlsblouse, that's the plan. Nobody is planning to leave the UK until a majority of Scottish voters wants to.

LassWiADelicateAir · 09/12/2018 20:50

Former Labour voter in Scotland (first voted in 1979 and every election excluding the last one) now voting Conservative entirely due to the separatists.

GirlsBlouse17 · 09/12/2018 20:53

If my memory is correct, one of the issues in the Scottish independence referendum was that Scotland would not be allowed to use the Pound anymore if it left the UK . With a weaker Pound, would that be less of an issue for Scots if there was a second referendum?

LassWiADelicateAir · 09/12/2018 20:55

What currency would be used ? A weaker pound is still a currency , unlike the groat.

GirlsBlouse17 · 09/12/2018 21:08

No idea! The Euro but not sure how many years Scotland would have to wait before joining the EU

Tiscold · 09/12/2018 21:09

Yes what currency would scotland use?

Not the euro until they're in the eu so would take at least 3 years, monopoly money perphaps? They can also pay their massive debt off with that as well perphaps.

Nyx · 09/12/2018 21:30

Tiscold, where are you based? Not Scotland, I assume? Does your country have a massive debt, and are they paying it off?

If and when Scotland votes to become independent, they will use whatever currency they decide will work best for them.

Shenanagins · 09/12/2018 21:38

I never understand the paradox of wanting independence from Westminster with the determination to be governed by Brussels who in turn are soon to be dominated by France and Germany.

Also, I’m sure the fishermen wouldn’t be too happy at going back into Europe!

GirlsBlouse17 · 09/12/2018 21:51

Scotland has a population much less than that of London. You could say London voted to remain in the EU and now it didn't get it's way, it demands a referendum to leave the EU. But it doesn't, even though it is probably angry at the result, because it is one part of the UK, just like Scotland, and it doesn't see itself as anything different.

A PP said earlier that Scotland is irrelevant to Westminster, but Scotland has a population the same size as Yorkshire for example, and with the same amount of MPs who represent it in Westminster . On top of that it has its own devolved Parliament, unlike Yorkshire, so all in all it is represented just as much as any other area in the UK, if not more and even has the power to make many of its own laws, unlike most other areas in the UK

Tiscold · 09/12/2018 22:03

Good point girls blouse, scotland gets a pretty good deal tbh.

MyNameIsArthur · 09/12/2018 22:08

Thanks Tiscold.

it demands a referendum to leave the EU. should have said to leave the UK, but i think you understood what I meant!

BeachtheButler · 09/12/2018 22:10

There is no contentious issues with this border as their is with Ireland/Dover-Calais borders

Yet.

FunkyKingston · 09/12/2018 22:18

Scotland has a population much less than that of London. You could say London voted to remain in the EU and now it didn't get it's way

London is not a separate country.

Nor was London manipulated into voting against independence in a referendum by using continued and uninterrupted membership of the EU as a key plank in the deal that was sold to them, only for all that to be ripped up and to be led out of the EU in a botched attempt to shore up a Tory government we didn't vote for and to appease a bunch of ukip voting little Englanders.

So your comparison doesn't work on any level.

cherish123 · 09/12/2018 22:37

Scotland voted to stay in the UK. Scotland leaving the UK would have been an economic and logistical nightmare. Fortunately, most people saw sense and voted to remain. If Scotland left the UK, they would struggle to get into the EU.

nickiredcar · 09/12/2018 22:57

I really don't think their would be wounds again if they voted, it would be a 70%+ to leave I bet.

It might heal some of the wounds. Lots of new oil feilds left to explore and Aberdeen is booming.

OP posts:
Tiscold · 09/12/2018 23:14

Its booming for now.

But then you leave the uk so won't trade with your biggest trade partners at the same level and with the same rights and privileges. You will pay for your own defence of these oil fields which will have to be created as I'm pretty certain the uk wouldnt allow you to chop off some of its defence capability.

You also wouldn't be in the eu so wouldn't have access to tarriff free trading with thwm and would take years to negotiate that with.

Employers would leave in droves as you would have to set up a new currency, you would have a bigger deficit then greece so would be in extreme austerity emasures to deal with that. Banks wouldn't want to lend to you or only with crap terms and conditions because you're a new unstable economy.

So good look relying on that oil my friend, you're going to need it

Tiscold · 09/12/2018 23:17

Ooh and you would also have to spend years creating new trade agreements with all the other countries.

Plus you know would the uk still share intelligence with you? So that's the cost of setting up a new intelligence agency to protect your interests. Plus setting up embassys and consulates around the world is pretty costly. Plus creating 10s of different government departments that you don't manage yet, so your own mod, foreign office etc etc.

So yeah aberdeen is booming whoop whoop

Walkingdeadfangirl · 09/12/2018 23:59

manipulated into voting against independence in a referendum by using continued and uninterrupted membership of the EU

People who lose a vote always claim the other side manipulated the electorate. lol, Its called being a sore loser.

Lots of new oil feilds left to explore and Aberdeen is booming

The oil fields are currently owned by the UK, if Scotland left the UK we would have to discuss how to split up the assets. Scotland doesn't just get to take what it wants in a divorce.

Calyx · 10/12/2018 06:56

And there it is. Westminster needs Scotland's assets (oil) which is why we are stuck in this unequal and unfair 'union'.

It's why Scotland won't be 'allowed' to leave the UK. Westminster don't subsidise Scotland. Why would they?

Divorce from an economically abusive union would be the best thing for Scotland even if difficult at first. But the odds are stacked against it.

DragonNoodleCake · 10/12/2018 08:33

I agree with @EdtheBear

It would destroy what's left of Scotland's economy.

I live in Scotland- the infrastructure is not coping as it is.

AlmostAlwyn · 10/12/2018 08:42

Tiscold

That's great that crystal ball you've got there. Full of certainty you are! Are you also "fairly certain" about this week's lottery numbers?

All these things would have to be negotiated and I don't believe that the rest of the UK would cut off its nose to spite its face and cease trading with an independent Scotland.

Scotland also would have a share (to be negotiated) in real estate assets, which includes embassies.

Nyx · 10/12/2018 09:42

You're right, AlmostAlwyn. MI5, MI6, Scotland Yard, Whitehall, diplomats, consulates, ambassadors, a foreign office, MoD - all UK institutions, agencies and services, not English - Scotland pays for these pro rata on an equal level with England, N Ireland and Wales. We are not given the use of them for free. When you think about it like this, we are already paying a lot of the costs of running a country now, whether the costs of running devolved services or contributions to Westminster responsibilities.

Also currently these are all based in London and therefore to access employment in any of them requires living in London. Independence would provide a raft of highly paid quality employment, the tax revenue paid by these staff would benefit the Scottish economy, and the brightest and best in our society would no longer need to leave Scotland in order to fulfil their potential.

People rarely mention the economic benefits to Scotland going independent - our share in all of the UK assets which would need to be negotiated and agreed. The fact that Scotland would no longer have to subsidise the rest of the UK's excesses, like HS2, Trident, new airport runways in the South of England, etc.

As for the oil. Geographically Scotland has the vast majority. And that is how these things are traditionally divided. There would be discussion on where to draw the line but still Scotland would have the vast majority.

Satsumaeater · 10/12/2018 09:58

Legally it's not possible. During the referendum in 2014 there was a lot of talk about Scotland "leaving" the UK. In fact, legally, if Scotland wanted to "leave" the UK, it would actually be dissolving the union and the UK wouldn't exist anymore either.

When the driving force of the No campaign was that it was the only way we could remain in the EU. Then DC turned round and announced the EU referendum

Not true - I do get fed up of this myth. DC announced the referendum back in early 2013, way before the Scottish referendum.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/12/2018 11:25

Westminster needs Scotland's assets (oil) ... Westminster don't subsidise Scotland

Sorry, but: fullfact.org/economy/tax-and-spending-scotland/

Nyx · 10/12/2018 11:30

Satsumaeater, calling it a myth is a bit disingenuous. Cameron pledged an in/out referendum in a speech in 2013 "if the Conservatives won the 2015 election". The actual referendum was in 2016, after the independence vote. And there's no denying that a central plank of the No vote was that voting No was the only way to guarantee staying in the EU. That's not a myth.