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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Scotland should be allowed to leave the UK and remain in the EU

527 replies

nickiredcar · 09/12/2018 06:34

New poll says that most Scots think they would be better off leaving the UK after brexit. It's time they had another vote right?

OP posts:
CardsforKittens · 09/12/2018 14:17

I'm entirely sympathetic to those who believe Scotland should become independent. I understand the desire for self-determination: I grew up in the 80s and saw Scotland getting Tory government after Tory government that they hadn't voted for. And devolution still leaves quite a lot in Westminster's power.

I just have one question: if the UK leaves the EU and then Scotland votes for independence and EU membership, would we need another hard border /'backstop' debate about the border between England and Scotland?

TheNavigator · 09/12/2018 15:35

I just have one question: if the UK leaves the EU and then Scotland votes for independence and EU membership, would we need another hard border /'backstop' debate about the border between England and Scotland?

Of course we would - it would be a nightmare & would make Brexit seem like a walk in the park.

Nyx · 09/12/2018 15:42

The benefits of independence for Scotland are far more obvious and beneficial than the benefits of Brexit for anyone. So at least the hassle would be worth it. There would be a point to it for us.

SilverySurfer · 09/12/2018 15:59

New poll says that most Scots think they would be better off leaving the UK after brexit. It's time they had another vote right?

Could you let us have a link to that poll please, OP? Everything I've read still indicates a majority in favour of staying in the UK, which I'm inclined to believe because if it were otherwise surely SNP would be making a great deal of noise about it.

Thanks

Accountant222 · 09/12/2018 16:20

Audible groan

hadenough · 09/12/2018 16:23

The sooner Scotland is independent, the better.

This Brexit farce has only reinforced what we've known all along - Scotland is seen as an inconvenient irrelevance to Westminster - a part of the UK that must be seen to be part of the union, but must never be heard.

Time and time again during the 2014 referendum we were told we were equal partners. Time and time again, Westminster has shown nothing but contempt towards the Scottish people.

England can have its Brexit if it wants it - a vote which was made on the back of lies, intolerance and the spread of hate.

But so too should Scotland have the opportunity to take a different path - we don't share England's values (or lack of), and we're all the better for that.

And to those in England repulsed by Brexit and to those who stand in opposition to the policies and outlook of the little Englanders, who majority backed Brexit and showed their true intolerance and wish to turn their back on the rest of Europe based on misinformation and bigotry - you will always be welcome in Scotland.

Patroclus · 09/12/2018 16:33

So the plan is to turn backs on a debt which belongs to the union, and give it to England, Wales and N.I to pay off Sotland's part? thats realistially going to happen is it?

Nyx · 09/12/2018 16:35

Patroclus, who says Scotland will do that?

Patroclus · 09/12/2018 16:35

In fact I must try the 'debt is your construct' line with my bank.

groundcontroltomontydon · 09/12/2018 16:59

Scotland is seen as an inconvenient irrelevance to Westminster
Everywhere that isn't London is seen as an inconvenient irrelevance to Westminster (and 'Westminster' includes 59 Scottish MPs)

Walkingdeadfangirl · 09/12/2018 17:12

I wonder if Scotland voted 52:48 to leave the UK would they then negotiate a new relationship with England and give their residents a second vote on the deal?

Maybe the EU would be better at running Scotland than the SNP have been.

Raglansleeve · 09/12/2018 17:18

NYX post of 12.05 about how Denmark manages to have a better standard of living than the UK with no oil/gas etc. Have you seen Denmark’s tax rates Grin ?

Scotland put 1% on higher income tax rates and the howls of derision could be heard from Shetland to Langholm.

Nyx · 09/12/2018 17:28

I wouldn't mind aspiring to a Danish standard of living. They tax high but there are reasons for that:
"Denmark's high taxation rates stem from the emphasis placed on work-life balance, democracy and other areas people prioritise. This gives rise to a welfare society that runs smoothly in many respects. The high level of social welfare contributes to a society that is accustomed to generally high standards of living with free education, health care, etc."
The Danes are generally very high on the Happiest Country in the World rankings.
I don't hear howls of derision.

Nyx · 09/12/2018 17:30

Scotland gets howls of derision no matter what we try, do or say, the way things are.

Tiscold · 09/12/2018 17:37

Or people are informing you of what economical suicide you will cause if you leave?

A poster above criticised 'england' for voting for brexit and many leave voters have been told how stupid and racist they're for voting leave but thats ok? But us telling scots how stupid it would be to leave the uk isn't?

Nyx · 09/12/2018 17:41

Tiscold, of course it is ok to disagree. And discussion/debate is good.

Merename · 09/12/2018 17:52

Most yes voters in the last referendum voted yes because they want to pursue a more left leaning and egalitarian politics which they felt was increasingly at odds with Westminster. As I understand it many in England would take the chance to be free of Westminster if they could. The media portrayed a ‘nationalist’ anti-English agenda that was nonsense for most yessers. The way things are developing around Europe, an autonomous lefty country is needed more than ever. It would be wonderful to separate from the uk for this reason.

Bejazzled · 09/12/2018 17:54

Nyx And here we go with the codswallop and numpties talk, sigh

That's exactly the attitude that tore the country apart the last time

Sandinyourshoes · 09/12/2018 18:39

I voted No in 2014 and Remain in 2016. However I didn't vote against independence in 2014 in order to stay in the EU. I wouldn't vote Remain again, should there be another referendum/peoples vote, as I value the UK union more than the EU, and it appears that we have to choose. My Remain vote has been hijacked by the SNP.
I hope there are no more referendums as they are too divisive and I have actually avoided people who I know hold another view.

Jimdandy · 09/12/2018 18:42

What @knittedjest said.

ElainaElephant · 09/12/2018 18:45

Scotland put 1% on higher income tax rates and the howls of derision could be heard from Shetland to Langholm

Interesting. I haven't heard a single person complain. Not one.

But I do know someone that lives and works in Scotland for a German company, that was given the option to be put on the payroll elsewhere as a result of this increase, and declined because he is happy to pay the 1% knowing it won't be hijacked by Westminster.

SilverySurfer · 09/12/2018 18:53

Thanks for the link Nyx. It's interesting that despite the article asserting that the majority preferred independence over Brexit, the article concludes with:

However, the view did not translate in to support for independence right now. Panelbase had Yes trailing No by 47 per cent to 53 per cent.

Unless/until that changes I doubt the SNP will push for another referendum.

hadenough
The sooner Scotland is independent, the better.

Not according to the majority of Scots who voted No and who still appear to be in the majority.

Silkie2 · 09/12/2018 18:53

They thought a majority would vote for independence or they wouldn't have called a referendum, the same would happen again.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 09/12/2018 18:55

I'm confused .., why was it suggested that Denmark were doing okay without oil and gas? Confused

ens.dk/en/our-responsibilities/oil-gas/about-oil-and-gas

Denmark has produced oil and gas from the Danish part of the North Sea since 1972. Oil and gas production still contributes significantly to state revenue. Thus, the tax revenue, exports and profits generated by the oil and gas sector have had a major impact on the Danish economy and helped build the Danish welfare state

Denmark has been a net exporter of oil and natural gas since 1997. Forecasts show that Denmark will remain a net exporter until the 2020s