To think Scotland should be allowed to leave the UK and remain in the EU

[nickiredcar]

New poll says that most Scots think they would be better off leaving the UK after brexit. It's time they had another vote right?

That's the date of the article

Oops The point still stands though. Prior to the indyref anyone who suggested we might leave the EU was widely dismissed as scaremongering. It was one of the primary planks of the Better Together campaign that the only way to stay in the EU was to vote No.

Does this idea not worry anyone? Even just a little bit?

No. Scotland has a declining population - we need immigration.

The EU wouldn't touch Scotland with a barge poll. By the time they've jumped through the hoops they need to join the effects on their economy would become apparent and it'd be like a poisoned chalice, another millstone draining the ECB.

What makes you say that? Scotland is a wealthy country with impressive assets compared to the size of its population.

But nobody actually thought that the UK would actually vote for Brexit. Not even the people that were campaigning for it.

So yes, we knew that there might be a vote at some undetermined date in the future, but we were told time and time again that voting for the union was the only way to be sure we could stay in the EU.

Quite clearly nobody could call it at the time of the brexit vote, so how you reject Scots to be able to know how it should pan out before there was even a date set itls beyond me.

Good grief, the grievance politics and persecution complex's are absurd. Contrary to some of my fellow scots beliefs, the English dont spend all day thinking about how they can exclude Scotland, fuck them over or keep them in the evil empire, they care about Scotland about as much as your average englishman cares about Yorkshire, or Wales.

I've seen nationalists trying to sneak in this ridiculous idea that Scotland was colonised under the British Empire and subjected to all its horrors. Britain was a union enthusiastically entered by Scotland, and Scots always took up a disproportionately large amount of colonial positions and places in the army. Take some bloody responsibility.

What of Gordon Brown, Blair, Michael Gove, the West Lothian question, devolution? Dont tell your average north Englander/Welsh about your lack of representation and power if you're a nat. playing persecution top trumps as usual.

The watershed for me has been told this week about that 'English bastard' Haig (infact very much scottish) slaughtering young scots for fun in the trenches by a nationalist this week.

This isnt the 'civic' nationalism we're meant to believe. It comes from the same economically incompetent, romantic grievance politics and historial lies as Brexit as far as I'm concerned. And brand of nationalism, from Salmond's to Yaxley Lennon's is a disease. The SNP are making a balls up and its time they got serious about the country.

"Calyx

Immigration is needed and welcomed here in Scotland. We need the people and we need their taxes. Our population is falling fast"

Straight off of Google...

5,424,800
On 30 June 2017, the population of Scotland was 5,424,800, the largest population ever in Scotland for the eighth year running. Scotland's population increased by 20,100 people (0.4%) in the year to mid- 2017.19 Apr 2018

You really should do your homework or before making such statements!

I think it would be fair to have another independence vote given Brexit.

Whether Scotland would be accepted into EU and all the unravelling of Uk ties need to be taken into account.

I’m not against a another vote for the people of Scotland. Their country, their decision.

You really should do your homework or before making such statements

And the immigration numbers were?

"And the immigration numbers were?"

What is this? 20 questions?

I was simply pointing out the inaccuracy of Calyx statement that the population of Scotland was falling fast.

8 years on the trot its increased to a level that has not previously been seen.

Would you prefer it if I didn't point out these minor inaccuracies to the narrative?

The EU is collaborative

😂

Work age people in Scotland Earthmover. Pension aged people will increase by 25% while work age people only projected to increase by 1%.

"Tim Ellis, the Registrar General of Scotland, said:
“The latest population projections show Scotland’s population is projected to continue to increase and to age over the next 25 years.
“The rise in population is driven by projected migration into Scotland both from rest of the UK and from overseas, while the number of deaths is projected to exceed the number of births every year.
“Over the period we also expect to see the number of people of pensionable age increase by 25 per cent, while the number of people of working age will increase by one per cent and the number of children will decrease by two per cent.”
The population of Scotland is projected to rise from 5.40 million in 2016 to 5.58 million in 2026, and to continue to rise to 5.69 million in 2041 – an increase of 5% over the 25 year period.
All of the projected increase in Scotland’s population over the next 10 years is due to net in-migration to Scotland; 58% of net
in-migration is projected to come from overseas, with 42% from the rest of the UK." - www.nrscotland.gov.uk/news/2017/scotlands-population-is-projected-to-increase-and-to-age

It also says:
"Natural change (the number of births minus the number of deaths) is projected to be negative in each year of the projection. By 2041 it is projected that there will be over ten thousand more deaths than births each year."

And:

"Between 2016 and 2041, the population of pensionable age is projected to rise from 1.05 million to 1.32 million, an increase of 25%, while the number of children is projected to decrease from 0.92 million to 0.90 million (reduction of 2%) over the same period. This compares to an increase in the working age population from 3.43 million in 2016 to a peak of 3.59 million in 2028 (an increase of 5%). It is then projected to decline to 3.47 million by 2041"

So we do need immigration. Without it we have no-one looking after our ageing people and less people working and paying taxes.

Unionists and people who believe the Daily Mail / Farage school of thought are good at chucking figures about but do appear to avoid analysing them. Just saying.

Hope you're not too at me pointing out your mistakes Earth.

"Calyx

Hope you're not too blush at me pointing out your mistakes Earth"

What mistake? Can you remind me? because I can't see any counter claim regarding the only interaction we've had which referred to your claim that the population of Scotland is falling fast???

Regarding your statement that we will have an ageing population, these projections are unfounded.

www.nrscotland.gov.uk/news/2018/5000-more-deaths-than-births-in-2017

I'd assume that going on current trends 5000 more deaths than Births suggest that the 20,000 annual increase comprises of immigration plus another 5000 on top to cover the decrease that would have occurred had immigration been zero.
So we can conclude that the true figure for immigration last year was 25,000.

Also, given that there were more deaths than births kinda suggests that population age is decreasing.

As for projections, take them with a pinch of salt. They're very rarely accurate and quite often steered by politics.

"Tory health spokesman Miles Briggs said: “Scotland’s population has been ageing for some time, but this is a trend that’s been utterly neglected by the SNP.
“We can already see the strain this Scottish Government complacency has put on the NHS. The warnings have been sounded for years, but the SNP has done nothing.
“Unless we see swift action now, the problems for hospital staff and patients are only going to get worse in the years ahead."

Same fact different political spin. The demographic projections are true. Scotland needs immigrants to work, in and out of Health and Social Care, and pay taxes.

@calyx are you really Nicola ??

@Patroclus ' Britain was a union enthusiastically entered by Scotland, and Scots'

I'm afraid you've been drinking the Britnat historical coolaid. Sure some aristocrats and merchants made a lot out of Britain, and I agree class was more important than nationality in who was victim/beneficiary of imperialism. But what you said is wrong, Scotland was annexed against the will of its population, and resistance was brutally crushed in the following decades, the population were then subject to inhumane economic changes that either starved them or drove from their lands to the Americas and into cities to work in sweatshots. Plenty of Indians benefited from the Empire too, they settled places like east Africa, the Caribbean and Pacific Islands, doesn't mean the Indian population were brother imperialists with the English or that they should reject the idea that Indian independence means righting historical injustice (what you Britnats like to call 'grievance').

no I'm not Nicola Oldbutstillgotit but thanks!

www.thenational.scot/library/15357290.a-shabby-and-underhand-deal-how-scotland-came-to-be-part-of-this-union/

Sorry meant to say - long but interesting article, posted as Patroclus thinks Scotland were all really keen to be swallowed up by England and Wales

Sounds like divisive gnat grievance to me! (j/k)

I would be interested to know the % of people who voted Yes in Independence referendum and Remain.

Some of the Nationalists I know are strongly opposed to the EU!

I do think Scotland has got a bum deal. I do not support independence and if I had a vote in 2014 would have voted no (non resident). But it was sold to Scotland that to stay in EU you would need to stay in Usk.

Yet again the Tories are making Scotland suffer.

If probably would still be against independence but nowhere near as vehemently as before. Too much damage has been done to the UK with this Brexit shambles and it’s irreparable.

Sadly I think an idenpendent Scotland would struggle to join the EU

Random 18

Sadly I think an idenpendent Scotland would struggle to join the EU

I think they may say that initially but we all know how desperate the EU is to land grab Western nations.
There ultimate aim seems to be closer integration and centralisation of power.
So I think they'd make concessions to allow Scotland to join but would impose austerity measures to meet any monetary deficits in the years that followed.

How long before the Indy camp starts campaigning for a referendum to be free of the EU?

Do you think Sturgeon will have the brass neck to back it? Or will she be sitting on a wee cushty number in the European Parliament with a fat pension by then?

How long before the Indy camp starts campaigning for a referendum to be free of the EU?

No issues with that at all. Once we are independent we can decide things like that ourselves.

The sooner Scotland is independent the better.

England is an embarrassment, and I don't want to be associated with it.

The EU is collaborative

Oh ha ha.