To think Scotland should be allowed to leave the UK and remain in the EU

[nickiredcar]

New poll says that most Scots think they would be better off leaving the UK after brexit. It's time they had another vote right?

Total brexit turnout in Glasgow was 56%.

Nearly half of Glasgows registered voters didn't care enough either way to vote at all.

So I'm very wary of this 'overwhelming vote' that huge numbers of us didn't even turn up for.

Morris, there are many countries who have become independent from the UK. There are many countries which have borders with other countries. There are precedents! Honestly. Nobody is asking you personally to work it all out.

And you can be as wary as you like. It was an overwhelming vote, in referendum terms. 62% to 38%. Scottish turnout was nearly 70%. Remain won in every council area.

Elaina, I’m not missing the point at all. The question was whether Scotland should be able to leave the UK and join the EU.

My answer is that the Scottish people voted to stay in the UK in the referendum, so no Scotland can’t now just decide to leave the UK. And on the 2nd part of the question, no Scotland can’t just join the EU because the deficit is far too big to qualify.

And lastly just to reiterate, more people in Scotland voted to leave the EU than supported the independence seeking SNP at the last election so where is the evidence that the majority want this anyway.

Skinnydecaff - www.heraldscotland.com/news/17286309.poll-clear-majority-of-scots-say-independence-better-than-brexit/

Nyx, how would our border with England work if we were in the EU but England wasn't?

Even without independence, its impossible to picture. I cant just trust others to 'work it out', because it's never that simple, look at brexit negotiations.

Borders are discussed here, but there are plenty of options. As Nyx said, countries have borders

www.allofusfirst.org/library/an-independent-scotlands-borders-and-customs-principles-and-approaches/

So it's brexit all over again. Vote now, sort out the small print later. But the small print isn't small. It's the stuff people really want to know before they vote, not after.

If you are genuinely interested there has been a lot of work done e.g. www.allofusfirst.org/library/

Obviously there cannot be certainty as WM is a bit of an unknown. Pretty sure most (all?) countries who become independent don't regret it. There is no reason that Scotland should somehow be uniquely incapable .

No, Scotland cannot leave the UK and remain in the UK. In theory (although it would be suicidal given the Barnet formula where Scotland benefits from England's generosity - look it up) if they did leave the UK Scotland could apply to join the EU as per their rules, but would likely have to jump through numerous economic hoops that they would be unlikely to meet without England.

Given the free prescriptions/Uni/ free water etc I get a bit put out by independence talk. I don't expect a thanks for England propping you up, but some recognition of the facts would be a start.

Scotland voted to stay in the UK, in part, based on the fact that it was the only way we could be sure to be part of the EU.

I agree, Scotland 'can't now just decide to leave the UK' - but who has said that? Precisely no-one.

However, based on a material change of circumstances, Scotland should have the option to ask the people what they think now.

And if the UK ask the population if they want to leave the EU without asking the EU if they can, why should Scotland have to ask Westminster's permission to have another vote? What's good for the goose and all that...

remain in the UK - i meant EU. Apologies.

No, Scotland cannot leave the UK and remain in the UK

Yeah, nobody is saying that they can...

As far as England propping Scotland up goes - please do read through earlier posts. There's a reason why the UK government are so keen to keep the union together. If we were such a huge drain on resources, don't you think they would be dropping us as quickly as possible?

There are certainly no countries asking to get back under UK rule!

Difference between Scottish government and Westminster is that the Scottish government have given a lot of thought to the things you're asking about, there have been reports, white papers, studies - Westminster have no detail at all on Brexit. Stop trying to conflate the two.

It makes no difference. There are numerous options for brexit too, but in reality none of them have proved workable or palatable.

It's irrelevant that Scotland has 'options' about its border. I don't want a list of possible options. I want to know what I'm voting for.

Everanewbie, please. Read up about the Barnett formula?

England don't pay for Scotland's free prescriptions etc.

Maybe you should read the whole thread? But as it's about Scotland you probably can't be bothered. The jocks really should get back in their box, eh what?

Do the countries who don't want to come back into the UK share infrastructure with us?

What do you mean by shared infrastructure?

I mean clearly there is nowhere that has a road in both countries, but Ireland shares a border with Northern Ireland, if that counts?

@LassWiADelicateAir Not a strawman, an accurate summary of the 'unionist' case against independence, such as it exists, which in practice often relies on Scotland's beaten down mentality of self-loathing and master worship. Incidentally, I suspect that this is why hard core unionists (and I don't mean middle ground No voters) hate baby boxes and free gifts for new little ones:optimism and smiling Scottish children just make their ageing gammon faces redden up with anger and cringe.

By infrastructure I mean the roads, railways, logistics, deliveries, culture, media, economy etc.

I still don't understand what you think the issue is? All those things cross borders everywhere.

Ireland/Northern Ireland is probably the closest you'll get in that case.

@Everanewbie Your media feed you these myths about Scotland because they don't want you to think that a caring or compassionate state is impossible, they want you to believe that the snarling Tory and Daily Mail way is the only way possible and therefore they need you to believe Scotland gets those things because of some injustice, some injustice at your expense. It's the same technique they use to make you hate immigrants and the poor. Don't fall for it!

*possible

Nyx so Scotland spends what it raises? 8% of UK revenue and receives 9% of its spending. That does not include shared services like defense, intelligence etc. It might not be a England that pays, but Scotland's greater portion of the pie, and England receiving less spending than collected in tax creates the conditions that allow Scotland to offer fee/cheaper education and prescriptions.

I am sure Scotland could function on their own, but if that is what they want (and the referendum/opinion polls suggest they don't) then I think an injection of realism is needed in assessing what spending/public services and personal taxation will be needed.

Scotland & Cambridge are both part of the UK. They both voted Remain, Cambridge more so than Scotland.

So why the fuck do you think Scotland's so special as to not have to go along with the majority UK vote?? Many of us don't like it, but it's happening. Stop fucking whining and pleading special status all the time. You'll have to suck it up, just like the rest of us.