To be shocked that Mn has been branded a “hotbed of transphobia”

[Badmoonsarising]

BY Vice msgazine no less!

broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3mn9k/mumsnet-uk-mom-forum-terf-transphobia-feminism

Is it because you were born or raised in Britain by any chance?
Do you think you’d still feel british if you’d been born or raised in chile?

I feel British though. But what does that mean? I absolutely cannot define it but I still feel it.

Whatever it means it is completely irrelevant to whether or not you are British.

But being female isn't just about biology is it? We're not just walking wombs and vaginas. We're people with feelings and emotions too.

We are indeed, but they are not what makes us female. That would be biology, only.

This thread is actually very funny. It is full of people claiming that Mumsnet is transphobic whilst holding (what TRAs would consider to be) transphobic views themselves.

Exactly! Not being in favour of self-ID is all it takes.

For your analogy to hold ratrolypoly, the immigrants would need to come from a group that has historically oppressed the British people, and that still held considerable structural power over them today. Without this vital context, no comparison is ever going to be valid.

Indeed. It's strange how this always gets left out.

Weetabixandshreddies
Our Bodies, Ourselves was a feminist group set up and run by women.

So in your opinion, women ''should'' do something to educate themselves, but when they do you criticize them for setting up ''an organisation''.
OK, whatever.

I doubt many of the trans activist forums are particularly pleasant about women and women's rights.

You'd be right. There's no consideration for any woman who might be reading, is there?

This thread is actually very funny. It is full of people claiming that Mumsnet is transphobic whilst holding (what TRAs would consider to be) transphobic views themselves.

Thats it in a nutshell tbh.

It's depressing that people don't understand that one of the problems is definition of transphobia which is bonkers.

And then wonder why people get pissed off at getting called transphobic and then become entrenched.

I’m English but I lived in Scotland a long time, sometimes Scottish people would refer to me as an ‘honourary scot’, I loved scotland, it was my home. I voted in their elections, had my house there, my partner was Scottish.

But I couldn’t claim to be Scottish and if I had I think it would have totally pissed people off. If I had said ‘but I like burns night, and I say wee and I put chippy sauce on my chips!’ Still wouldn’t have flew.
Then if I’d said ‘well I’m from the north of England and we get a raw deal from the south so I think you should let me be Scottish otherwise you support the north/south divide.’

How do you think that would go down??

I have to say it feels like a lot of posters would prefer a world where it was only LGBQQICAPF2K++ . I'm sorry but there's a T between the B and the first Q for a reason. I find some of the phobia abhorrent.

Is this post a joke?

Historically white people have oppressed black people, and continue to in many ways. How would you feel if black people spent their days slagging off white people to every opportunity, calling them all oppressive racists. Called for them to not be given citizenship or allowed in our country because they haven’t been through what they’ve been through. White people are dangerous.

It is fine for them to discuss historical and current oppression, it is great for them to talk about how to overcome this and put an end to things that disadvantage them. It is not ok for them to become obsessed with white people and how inferior they are to themselves. It is not ok for them to call white people names such as ‘honky’ because they don’t like them.
It is not ok for them to start making up statistics about white people to stop people accepting them.
It is not ok for them to say all white people are dangerous racists.
It is not ok to paint all white people as perverts because some are.
It is not ok to compare all white people to Hitler because he was a white voice.
It is not ok to be racist towards white people because Jo down the road thinks just saying they’re privileged is racist.

As I’ve said some people here do care about woman and post out of genuine concern, I agree these conversations should continue.
Some people post nasty, inexcusable transphobia and think it’s acceptable because they’ve not really drawn a line between when it’s about woman and when it’s just about you not liking transgender people.

I think that for all practical purposes you are Scottish if you pay Scottish tax and you can vote for a representative in the Scottish Parliament.

My mum (born in Scotland, family Scottish, lives in England) was a bit miffed that my friend (born in England, family English, lives in Scotland) could vote in the referendum when she couldn’t, but at some point you need to define who is included and who isn’t, and there are very few situations where the defining characteristic will be subjective.

What I find most interesting is that you think you can be as transphobic as you like, because this [insert completely random non derogatory phrase] is seen as transphobic by this person.
You’re not idiots, you know when you’ve crossed the line. You just continue to push and push as far as you can go and then scream that you’re the victim.

So in your opinion, women ''should'' do something to educate themselves, but when they do you criticize them for setting up ''an organisation''.

No, that isn't my opinion, so with respect, kindly don't out words into my mouth.

My original point was that women don't need to passively wait to be educated about their bodies.

You then referenced an organisation that provided education that shut down.

My point is whether or not it was a feminist organisation run by women, for women, it was still an organisation.

Individuals need to take personal responsibility. We don't need an organisation, of any kind, to educate us. We can, and should, individually, learn about the basic functions of our own bodies.

If organisations exist to help facilitate this, great. If not, find out for yourself.

Historically white people have oppressed black people, and continue to in many ways. How would you feel if black people spent their days slagging off white people to every opportunity, calling them all oppressive racists. Called for them to not be given citizenship or allowed in our country because they haven’t been through what they’ve been through. White people are dangerous.

Are you suggesting female bodied people have historically oppressed Male bodied people?

It’s more like if a white person claimed they identified as black and then expected black people to stop talking about the historical opression they’ve received because it ‘excluded’ them.

Its not OK for white people to;

• colonise BAME people's groups, spaces and services
• self ID as BAME, or demand BAME people accept their self identity.

We can, and should, individually, learn about the basic functions of our own bodies.

And where are people supposed to learn this if everyone is supposed to do it individually?

No men oppress woman historically obviously.

You can’t take responsibility for your own education if the information out there isn’t there or is confusing or wrong.

So how does your race analogy hold up?
How does women asking men not to redefine women and stay out of spaces set up to protect us from men in any way compare to white people oppressing black people.

Calvinsman

What I think about your Scottish/English point is that it is dreadful.

We have plenty of immigrants who weren't born in England but who choose to live here and now consider themselves to be British. That is fantastic.

They are not " honorary Brits".

They feel British and then have gone through a citizenship process then they are British.

I feel British though.

What would you think of someone who was born in Spain, had lived their whole life there, had Spanish parents and only spoke Spanish, but said 'I feel British', and expected to be given a British passport?

And where are people supposed to learn this if everyone is supposed to do it individually?
Err, from books, from on line research, from talking to people in real life?

And who’s writing the books and making the websites?

But not from women's groups set up and run by women for women. Right, gotcha, thank you for educating us