To be shocked that Mn has been branded a “hotbed of transphobia”

[Badmoonsarising]

BY Vice msgazine no less!

broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3mn9k/mumsnet-uk-mom-forum-terf-transphobia-feminism

And you would be happy for women to get assaulted by Jonathan Yaniv and the like as long as your dad can continue to do what he wants ?

Breugel you are conflating a refusal to concede biological impossibilities with something else.

I'm not. In fact, they're very much separate for me. I do not believe those discussions are transphobic. But I also see a lot of hateful stuff posted on those same subjects, often in the form of jokes, and the people who post it feel emboldened because people so rarely call them out on it. Most people on the feminist boards are so caught up in the whole debate that they're happy to gloss over somebody making an off-the-cuff abusive comment.

So yes, maybe the Vice article linked to in the OP of this thread has been overzealous with its definition of transphobia, but since the thread quickly descended into the standard declaration that "there is no transphobia on mumsnet!", I felt I should comment that I believe there is. Because somebody needs to call those people out sometimes.

Why would he get beaten up?

He would be discriminated against for being transgendered.

I'm not surprised at all. There are women here, some of whom might not even be that fuckable, saying inconvenient things. Of course they need to be discredited. Vice haven't done a very convincing job of it, mind.

By your dad going into female toilets/changing rooms, he is effectively turning that space into a unisex one without the permission of the women and girls using it. This immediately hightens the risk to those women and girls.

You know your dad, we don't. We also cannot tell the difference between your dad, and a potential assaulter?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

There are so many transphobic post on mn. The people who post on these boards know what they're doing, they won't ever write anything explicitly transphobic but their message is very much transphobic. Then they'll say, link to where it's transphobic... They must be incredibly dim if they truly don't think almost every single one of their 'discussions' isnt transphobic. I know most people hide the feminism board so they don't have to see the anti trans conversations but then you're left with a group of anti trans people who just egg each other on. I take comfort in the fact that they are very much the minority (both on mn and in the real world) thank goodness its being flagged more and more now and hopefully soon enough they will be removed and not given a platform for them to perpetuate their hate

He would be discriminated against for being transgendered.

The women in the toilets he is using are being discriminated against by not allowing them safe spaces. Why does his rights trump theirs?

It would look very odd my dad going to the mens toilet in his dress.

Yes and radical feminists want to address that. Why can’t men wear dresses?
Why are men who go against normal gender norms a target?

Feminists would like to get men to end Male violence so you can wear what you like to the toilet and no one gets beaten up.

Nobody wants your dad to be beaten up but Male violence isn’t our problem to fix, and it’s not fair to open women up to the potential of other violent men using men like your dad as a cover to access victims. Women are worth more than being the collateral damage in a male problem.

He would be discriminated against for being transgendered.

Discriminated against or beaten up? And who would be doing the beating up or discriminating?

“Transphobic” is a word used by trans activists and their friends to describe any view that doesn’t fit with theirs. Eg not agreeing that a woman can have a penis. Not agreeing that a man can literally become a woman by saying they feel like one. That meaning is apparent on a lot of mumsnet posts. I don’t agree that that is transphobic.

So, to me the word describes people who think that trans people are to be shunned, or harassed, insulted or attacked, or discriminated against so that their access to employment or services is affected. I’ve not seen that attitude on mumsnet. But I have seen on social media threats of violence and intimidation to women who don’t agree with trans rights activists rhetoric. I have read about academics who have lost funding for research on detransitioning, and those who are hounded for saying that women only spaces should be kept as such.

I have always thought that people who have gender dysphoria should be able to live as the sex they want to. I would treat any such person with respect, refer to them how they wish. I do not think that self Id though has sufficient safeguards. I worry that now being trans is not about dysphoria. It’s a lifestyle choice. If someone can still retain a male body, penis, beard but say they are a woman, I have concerns about that person accessing female only spaces.

I'm not sure I have ever seen or said there is no transphobia. Like others I have reported posts that have been.

Maybe I should keep a tally and see how many are by long term posters and how many by one off posters.

Or maybe Vice could have acknowledged that many posts deemed to be transphobic just disagree with TRA ideology and some posts are unpleasant, some deleted and some just daft!

He would be discriminated against for being transgendered. BY MEN!

Does your dad live full time as a woman? all

And you would be happy for women to get assaulted by Jonathan Yaniv and the like as long as your dad can continue to do what he wants ?

My dad is now going to assault you nice comment. My dad looks as if he has an eating disorder and thats what you're worrying about.

My dad is now going to assault you nice comment.

She didn’t say your dad was going to assault anyone! Read that comment again because you’re not seeing what is being said.

Also it’s right out of the mra handbook for men to find the insinuation that women need protection from men ‘because they’ve never hurt anyone’ more offensive than the fact women might need protection in the first place.

He doesn't see himself as a woman he is a man who enjoys dressing as a woman. All the family know about him.

So your dad is a transvestite. Fine. He's not a woman. Why should he use women's spaces, allabout?

Does your dad live full time as a woman?

Me and my brother have left the nest and my mum has told me he still dresses. He would never do it in front of my partner or our children.

On the grounds that a picture's worth 1000 words, here we have three.

Karen White, convicted rapist and paedophile, housed in a women's prison because Karen uttered the magic words 'I identify as a woman' and nobody questioned it. Karen is now serving additional time (in a men's prison, I'm pleased to say) for sexual assault on two female prisoners during Karen's brief stay in the women's prison.

Also, Paris Green, due to be sent down from prison in Scotland to Brighton to have sexual reassignment surgery at the taxpayer's expense, which will cost a minimum of £60k because Green is so dangerous that round the clock security will be required even while Green recuperates from surgery www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/trans-murderer-serving-life-will-receive-80k-gender-reassignment/ 'Green, 27, was found guilty of murder and jailed for life in 2013 after she tortured, sexually assaulted and beat a man to death with two accomplices. Since being incarcerated, Green from Glenrothes, Fife, has been removed from a women’s prison for sexually assaulting other inmates.'

Also, Davina Ayrton, convicted of rape under that name. It goes on the stats as a crime committed by a woman, just like Karen White. Rape is a crime in English law that can only be committed with a penis.

If you can see nothing to be concerned about in any of these cases, and they're not the only ones, I don't know what to say to you.

Your dad is why a third space is needed all, ask yourself why TRA's are not campaigning for that but want access to women's spaces instead.

I'm always amused that shite 'woke' journos pick on MN, that is moderated and has transphobic (however tenuous) comments removed when they want some woke points, but never have the balls (arf) to go after sites like Kiwi Farms, Data Lounge or Piston Heads where there are real, unmoderated, violently transphobic posts

Because those forums are mostly men and men aren't expected to be nice, nurturing, kind to others, self-sacrificing, putting others' interests before their own, loving their "masters."

Oh no. All of that is for women to do. Especially mothers.

How dare mothers pretend to be really fully human and have opinions and stuff?

Are soles on the menu at the Mumsnet restaurant tonight?! Lordy, the twattishness on display makes me laugh and weep simultaneously. Luckily for me, and also for the trans community, the transphobes are losing the legal and cultural argument ever more. So they will always feel more irate than I will in these discussions as the tide is turning against them and history is leaving them behind.

You love your dad and are protective of him but please know that no one here wishes him harm or thinks he shouldn’t be able to wear whatever clothes he likes.

I was brought up on a council estate by lesbians in the 90’s, we had bricks put through our windows and homophobic attacks daily, it was terrifying.

I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

I know that this has moved on a little bit but there was a post near the beginning (sorry, on my phone and struggling to find it again after reading the remainder of the thread) that said that certain viewpoints couldn’t be seen as transphobia because phobia means “fear of” and the poster in question doesn’t fear trans people. Homophobia and xenophobia both have “phobia” attached as opposed to things like racism or sexism which are “isms” rather than “phobias” but I could certainly see homophobic or xenophobic views expressed without fears being expressed. I don’t know if I’m waffling too much and this doesn’t make sense but I’m deeply unhappy about things like Karen White being moved to a female prison and feel my concerns are legitimate but I don’t think that saying “I’m not transphobic because I’m not afraid” is actually helpful. I have no idea if that made any actual sense