Aibu to think most people have no idea what it's like being a secondary teacher.

[Tiredteacherlass]

I believe that most people have no idea how bad behaviour is and how most schools have feral children and no real means of control.

I'm fed up. the shouting, the filthy language, the name calling, the drugs, the absolute lack of slt support.

I can’t comprend how anyone would love teaching tbh

Thing that pisses me off the most is parents that refuse to back you up or accuse you of lying. Why yes of course I'd invent stuff your kid has done, I hadn't got enough paperwork to do so I thought I'd create a story to write about, then waste my time discussing the issue with senior staff. Then volunteer to be called a liar by you...

Not to generalise as I know some of you do with hard but I think there are a lot of teachers out there who aren't helping themselves.

I know a few.

One teaches secondary English and in always moaning about how stressed she is. But she spends her entire summer holiday gallivanting around America rather than lesson planning like others and so she has to do her lesson planning alongside her normal teaching and work during term time. She also doesn't help the behaviour as she is an ardent believer in "the patriarchy" and instead of keeping her views to herself at school she insists on lecturing her students - they have absolutely no respect for her as a result.

One teaches French at a secondary elsewhere in the country. She says the behaviour is awful, but she also "doesn't believe in shouting". So she doesn't: which means that she gets no reaction in her bottom set classes. When parents complain she just says that there is nothing more she can do and then bitches about how she's been victimised by them. She also does absolutely sod all during her holidays and then moans that she has to lesson plan etc during term time.

On another note, a friend of mine teaches maths in a really deprived area of London and has no issue with the behaviour - he sees it as part of his job and just gets on with it. He doesn't take it personally and he says he does his best for the kids but ultimately he is only one man and he isn't going to ruin his life or love of teaching by dwelling on something he can't change. This is how the rest of you should probably be looking at it.

Once you've shouted, you've lost. Shouting has no place in a classroom. I actually know of a school where teachers are banned from shouting due to the home lives of the pupils. They become immune to it.

It does happen, we've all lost it at least once. But it shouldn't be a behaviour management technique.

You can't do all your planning in the summer, planning has to adapt to what you've done the week before. And I learned early on not to plan too far ahead as the government or SLT just change things and mess it all up anyway.

But she spends her entire summer holiday gallivanting around America rather than lesson planning

Wow, she spends her holiday actually taking a holiday! How very dare she!

(Not tackling the question of teachers' pay/holidays)

If your that fed up OP can you think about doing something else for a living? Life's to short to be stuck in a job you are really unhappy with.

chopsy demonstrating she knows fuck-all about teaching.

If I spent the summer planning I’d have to rip it up and start again once I’d actually met my classes.

And shouting at bottom sets? FFS.

I have no idea what it’s like to be a teacher, and I don’t know how anyone does it. I certainly respect teachers.

chopy not only you are showing that you have no idea what it means to be a teacher but you clearly haven’t been in close contact to one (and used your empathy to actually UNDERSTAND what it means to be a teacher)

FWIW, having talked to numerous teachers, I find that

• I’m in awe of your friend of who spend her holidays actually TAKING AND ENJOYING her holidays. Too many teachers don’t and arrive in September knackered.
• the teacher who is not shouting is right in her approach. Shouting never works , not own bottom sets, not with the top sets either.
• and the teacher who says that she is been victimised and unsupported by the parents is is only reflecting what is often a reality. To start with, a lot of parents don’t ‘believe’ in education (I have plenty of them around me...) so their dcs not been keen about school or creating mayhem isn’t going to disturb them.

When you are in a situation where teachers have to intervene to separate people in a fight and those people are the parents coming to pick up their primary school children, this gives you an idea of what some teachers have to deal with everyday...

Tbh, MY HATS OFF TO ALL THE TEACHERS. YOU ARE DOING A REALLY HARD JOB WITH LITTLE REWARDS.

OP:
We aren't allowed to give punishments anymore... restorative practice is the new thing. We are meant to have restorative chats with the kids who call us names.

OP this is NOT normal or ok! In my school we have a warning system. If they get to strike 3 then SLT or others who are on behaviour duty come and remove them and they have an automatic detention. If that is missed or skipped it goes up through the system and escalated. Telling a teacher to fuck off etc is an automatic removal.

The restorative conversation is meant to happen at some point after the punishment or during their detention. This system has solved many major problems. Yes there are some who still flout these rules but I never see them because they are removed or temporarily excluded constantly.

I agree that the threshold for expulsion is extremely high now but a school needs a consistent approach with an excellent behaviour system that logs all incidents. I am horrified that you have to teach children like that.

As I have said up thread, my school is RI and in an area where about 80% are deemed to be pupil premium. It can be managed!

I was once called in to cover for a drama teacher. When I arrived she had hidden herself away in the cupboard and was crying, I actually heard children boasting about how they'd 'made Mrs X cry'. I was absolutely disgusted. She never went back and has left the profession all together. The behaviour of those students was the worst I had ever seen, they had a real shock when I arrived that day as they fully expected to beat me down too.

Boredspice that's not actually correct. Students have to be given a 'chance' in most schools before any punishment is allowed.

I teach 2 bottom sets. They are a real mix of characters with a massive range of needs but I have never shouted. I am very firm and very very clear about my expections. As I am backed up by an effective behaviour system, this works. I have been told by visitors to my classroom that you would not know my sets are low ability because they are working their arses off. I am extremely proud of my classes, they often have a better attitude than the top sets, who tend to relax far too much and coast along.

Boredspice that's not actually correct. Students have to be given a 'chance' in most schools before any punishment is allowed.

What isn’t correct? The warnings are part of the chances. Verbal, written etc. Swearing and being aggressive are not given chances, as they should not be. Nobody jumps straight to a detention but a removal is necessary for a child who is abusive.

It takes much more than that to consider an expulsion, swearing might be rude but it's not a reason to expel a pupil.

Exactly this Pupils can physically assault their teacher and not get told off let alone expelled. It's is all about restorative justice and being relentlessly positive without any consequences because the ones with parents who would be horrified aren't the ones doing it.

I feel sorry for anybody starting initial teacher training now because they are expected to be fully fledged teachers from pretty much the start and to know how to do the job. Same with NQTs. It's not unheard of to hear staff criticising other teachers in front of the children and to be as supportive as jelly because they are so stressed.

@chopsy obvious you aren't a teacher. I rarely shout... you quickly learn that the bampots love nothing more than a show where teachers shout. Plus it expends energy. Also if you shout all the time it literally leaves you with nowhere to go.
The only time I would considering raising my voice is to try to get the class attention if theyre being noisy... but that's an odd time.

People used to behave for fear of that!

Not always, my Uncle recalled a teacher trying to cane the hardest kid in his class who rather than meekly holding out his hand turned round and battered the teacher. The notion that burly 15 year old lads meekly submitted to a canning doesn't stack up.

A bit off the point but 5fivestar talked about her MILs pension being £1500 a month after 15 year pt teaching....I taught for 14/15 years full time and part time and my pension sadly is nothing like that! Where did I go wrong unless it was teaching in the state system?

I remember reading that the year after corporal punishment was banned assaults on teachers halved.

I am a HLTA and moved from a really tough primary setting to a secondary one and wow. Those kids. Not one single bit of respect. I've been called a cunt, a slag, a fat bitch, threatened and last week been assaulted. The kid who did it got absolutely no punishment, sorry natural consequence, whatsoever. I'm off back to primary, can't believe how intimidating a class of gigantic year 11 boys is. Hats off to all of you who manage it.

I can't even begin to comprehend how bad it must be in some schools.

It's all connected to strong leadership and a supportive staff that pull together though isn't it?

My dd is in Y11. She moved to this school after an appeal inY8 because she hated the first one she was at and it had never even been on her list of choices. As soon as she arrived at her new school she said the atmosphere alone was much better and the staff and pupils just seemed happier. Its much stricter and oversubscribed. No phones allowed - Head had been there years and has recently retired. Teachers a mix of ages and experience. Pupils have respect - zero tolerance for bad behaviour - you go into isolation or have a special pass if there's another issue so you can have time out. The popular kids are popular because they are nice not mean.
Total opposite to the first school which had millions spent on it, brand new, weak head, pupils allowed to go on phones if they had finished their work in class. Majority very young teachers. Lots of bullying.

Some schools can change things round but it all seems to filter down from the leadership.
Teaching is hard enough but if you haven't got a supportive structure behind you and bad behaviour is ignored then it must be horrendous.

DD watches programmes like 'School' with horror and incredulity. When I ask whether it was like that at her (I'd assumed) middle of the road normal comprehensive, she looks appalled and says 'No!!'

She's now at 6th form college and says that apparently it is like that at some of the other equally boringly normal schools in the area. Not clear why things differ so sharply across a few miles in one county.

At the very famous, expensive private school where i once taught the kids were boasting about how thet had a pregnant teacher crying in 5he cupboard.
There were no detentions and when i thought ' bugger this' and issued them a kid joked that why didnt they tie ne up and kill me. I dared to tell SLT anout this joke then I was managed out as obviously my lessons werent interesting e ough so behaviour was bad.( management told me what to teach!)

Bottom line is it is ALWAYS the teachers fault as management want everyone to think that the school has no problems and that the studenys are perfect. And of course there is NEVER any bullying of any kind...
When everyone says tge behaviour is better in private schools my eyes roll and i stifle a loud cackle!

Sorry typos...