Aibu to think most people have no idea what it's like being a secondary teacher.

[Tiredteacherlass]

I believe that most people have no idea how bad behaviour is and how most schools have feral children and no real means of control.

I'm fed up. the shouting, the filthy language, the name calling, the drugs, the absolute lack of slt support.

Decent kids is the wrong way of saying it but you know what I mean .

I agree a lot of people have no idea what it is like.

But not every school is like that! Ours certainly isn't. Yes there are difficult kids, by they are not the majority.

I think behaviour was worse twenty years ago tbh

It's not like that everywhere. It honestly isn't.

I'd noticed that in any school-based docu in the last few years there were no older teachers. And I mean older than 35. And it was weird. I have read plenty where it's explained people are leaving the profession in droves but it's so stark.

I've also been watching School and I agree it's awful and no one should have to work in these circumstances. Even if the government's endgame is to sell everything off to private businesses, the issues will still be there!

What I don't understand is where these kids that can't/won't behave end up? Are are they even capable of going to work? Jamie in the latest episode wanted an apprenticeship but he wouldn't go to school on time, wouldn't do the work, wouldn't listen etc. What does he think will be so different?

I know because I did secondary school direct. However, I'd add that teachers don't know what anyone else's job is like either. I came from a previous career that was no bed of roses either. Teachers I worked with had no idea what it was like to do my job and clearly didn't want to know, preferring to make some very patronising, rude and ignorant assumptions. I didn't go on to teach in the end- not because of the kids or the behaviour or the parents (though all could be just as bad as you say) but because of the teachers (and not just because they seemed completely ignorant of life outside a school, which at the end of the day is what they are suposed to be preparing their pupils for) . I started the course with respect for teachers in general. Sadly by the end of the course I just felt sorry for them. It's not a job I would recommend to anyone.

What I don't understand is where these kids that can't/won't behave end up? Are are they even capable of going to work?
They end up in PRUs or alternative provision (often only doing 2 hours a day).

After that, from what I've seen, they either end up not working and on benefits (or selling drugs) OR end up being successful doing a trade or something manual.

Hats off to you op my parents were teachers it nearly broke my father and he was classed as “inspirational” in his final ofsted.

Mine are at a “naice” all girls state I thank my lucky stars we moved here. At the open evening we spoke to staff who couldn’t believe their luck at working at this school which was a doddle in comparison to their previous schools. One said she was sad seeing how different an experience the pupils at the school she worked at got to what went on where her son was.

"Teachers don't know what other people's jobs are like either". Well quite.

It saddens me to read threads like this as not all schools, and not all students are like this. The school I’ve worked in for almost 20 years is nothing like this. Behaviour has improved over the years, the students are polite and staff are supportive of each other. There are clear behaviour systems in place, and as part of the senior team I know that they are always followed through. I do believe that the picture painted here is not indicative of the majority of schools in this country, that teachers do have positive relationships with their students and this leads to good behaviour, which is much more rewarding than trying to rule by fear and sanctions.

What has changed is a good question. This is just my opinion but I think there has been a large amount of social change.

There are definitely changes in medicine which has seen in a rise of babies being born and surviving from an earlier age. This means the amount of children with complex needs has risen..thus the threshold to access 'support has had to rise..so children who would have got extra support even a few years ago don't meet the threshold now.

Divorce. Sorry. No one likes to say it but it traumatises young minds at a subconscious level even if they seem fine. I am not surprised if both parents and children have the same surname.

Parents who are friends vs parents who are kind and firm but definitely the parents. How can we enforce boundaries when they are not given boundaries at home.

Gaming and mobile phones - it is literally killing a generations ability to make social connections and focus for long periods of time.

Schools have moved to more collaborative and fun ways of working which is actually counter what most children like. Silence and routine help a lot of children.

The amount of sugar in our food and drink. Its not unusual for young people to come to school drinking energy drinks. What hope have we got against such spikes in blood sugar and negative effects on the brain?

Linking performance to pay and trying to make everyone into an identi-kit perfect teacher that does not exist. This has made generations of teachers stressed . This stress is now reflected right back to us in the high levels of anxiety that we are seeing from students.

Friends who transferred from other professions into teaching seem to cope better than the ones who have done nothing else. The friend who was a bank manager says teaching maths at secondary is easier and she appreciates the holidays more having not had them.

I teach secondary. Compared to the coke-snorting corporate shite I used to have to deal with, it's fine. I love it. Miles easier with a lower workload love the energy of kids. Corporate background also meant the paperwork was less to me.

People have no idea what is involved in teaching generally. If I ever say to a teaching muggle that I have work to do, they always pause, look at me like I have two heads and say 'what kind of stuff do you have to do?' People just don't give any thought to the job at all.

And then I know a couple of mums who have started volunteering at my kids school and they will say to me 'gosh, the teachers are so busy, it never stops you know' and I'm like YES, I FUCKING DO KNOW!!!

One of the best teachers I've ever known is leaving this term. Totally ground down by the system, the feral children, the parents who expect miracles but instill no sense of responsibility in their offspring and a general disrespect for the profession.

Schools need to be able to have a zero-tolerance policy for bad behaviour, for snowflakes, and for hiding a lack of discipline behind "special needs." Some are genuine, but many children and teenagers just need to buck up their ideas. Parents need to teach their children life skills, not leave it to the teachers who are there for academia.

You’ve caught me on a bad day, because today I had a 6ft 2 year 11 boy start on me, and call me a slag because I asked him to put his phone away. So yeah, I think most people have no idea. I get verbally abused most days, whether it’s a pupil telling me to fuck off or calling me a slag, or someone telling me to shut of, or a parent telling me to ‘mind my own fucking business’. I try to remember that these children have been subjected to less than ideal households but it is wearing me down. Daily. I love my job but its exchausting and upsetting.

Do you think the terrible behavior and refusal to engage could be a reaction to the fact that the entire school system as we know it is utterly outdated?
Kids are extremely perceptive and intelligent. They must know this better than anyone.
IGCSEs and A levels are ridiculously outdated (as are all exams); cramming kids into small rooms to listen to an ‘expert’ is ridiculously outdated when everyone has a small device in their pocket who can give them more facts than the expert ever could. And instead of fostering and nurturing the ability to be different or think differently, that is exactly what gets you in trouble at school.
I do not mean to be a GF but until the entire concept of school changes we can debate this until we are blue in the face but nothing will change.
Even many teachers do not believe in the point of school in the way it is at the moment for our modern world anymore.
Give the kids some credit - we are wasting their time and destroying - it at best not developing the exact skills they need for the future. Of course they’re reacting against it.

Tinuviel

How do you get into that? It sounds like you've got all the best aspects of reaching

I wonder if part of the reason we think behaviour is not as bad 20-39 years ago is because (at least in my home country) you could get a decent job/apprenticeship and you didn’t need to go past y10. Especially in the case of some SEN, working may be ‘easier’ than complying with the regime day-in-day-out with schools. I have 2 dc with ASD and ASD now seems to be prevalent in 50% of my and DO family. His side are farmers, and perhaps working for yourself is an ideal occupation for some.

Now a good education is mandatory for most jobs and jobs are less plentiful. I probably think about this too much!

*teaching

I'm an English teacher!

I left. First school I worked at was great - stressful due to workload, etc. but my second school was awful. Pupil behaviour was dreadful, SLT were useless, the OFSTED report had it failing. I was physically assaulted by a 13 year old who was back in my very next lesson, no apology, etc and a message from SLT that I should do nothing about it. I put up with it for a while. It wasn't just a behaviour management issue from me either, before anyone might suggest it. This was happening throughout the school by many pupils, who knew they could get away with it. I saw much more experienced teachers who got the same treatment, even when they were 6 foot + older stronger men.

I left. I went to work in an adult male prison afterwards, woking with men aged 17y upwards (so some the same age as students I taught previously.) I felt safer, more respected and like I had far more control in the rooms. More importantly, there was management back up and consequences for those who gave staff grief.

I will never return to secondary school teaching. I vowed many years ago never too and I stick by it. I walked out of teaching at secondary around 13 years ago now. I have friends who still do it though most now only teach higher up the school or at sixth form/college, through preference.

I now teach at primary level, in infants. Love it and have that love of teaching back.

Completely with you after the week I've had OP. I work at an inner city school in the midlands. Bloody awful. Some of the kids have no respect, even the headteacher coming into a lesson today didn't change their behaviour. I think a lot of teachers being young (myself included) is part of it, but the lack of support when you report behaviour to parents doesn't help.

Also, I find that a lot of the most badly behaved students tend to come from the bigger families (5+ kids) and I think the parents attention is just too divided. Especially in the case of a student I dealt with today. He's in GCSE year and mom has a newborn, and 4 others in between. She just doesn't have the time for them all and the older ones get left to fend for themselves.

WishIwasanastrounaut - I completely agree with you.

The system is outdated.

Collaboration, mutual respect, meaningful work, linked to the wider world, respect, empathy, restoration and reflection, joy, inspiration...its a dream. Possibly in some schools a reality!

I couldn’t do it OP.

It’s soul destroying. But thank god for those that can and do.

Tell me where to sign to make it better, something should be done.

Best wishes

you get 13 weeks holiday a year!