Aibu to think most people have no idea what it's like being a secondary teacher.

[Tiredteacherlass]

I believe that most people have no idea how bad behaviour is and how most schools have feral children and no real means of control.

I'm fed up. the shouting, the filthy language, the name calling, the drugs, the absolute lack of slt support.

I've worked in a diverse range of schools and what makes or breaks them is nothing to do with OFSTED or exam results, but the support systems within the school.

I finished to prioritise my own DCs a couple of years ago. They needed more of my time than I could spare while functioning as a decent teacher.

I was finished off by:
Back covering, having to justify everything
Data/ target culture, heap of bullshit based on inflated meaningless SATs data
Whingy, uncooperative parents. Sadly even when senior staff know that the parental complaint is a heap of bullshit, you have to play the game and waste hours trying to appease them and evidence why you haven't been bullying the little darling who told them a half/ quarter truth.
Lack of resources. Having to fund classroom resources yourself or be hung out to dry by SLT because there was no glue/ pens etc
Constantly replanning and changing the curriculum. Constant new initiatives.
Double marking, parricularly when you write more than the student.
Restrictive curriculum forcing students into lessons they aren't suited to, in larger classes with no support.
Constant observations from collegues/ SLT/ accademy trust/ OFSTED
Everything is a battle for survival. Ultimately the survival of the school is fragile due to the target cultures. The fear of competancy procedures and the relief that the knives are out for Miss X not Mr Y.

It wasn't the behaviour in itself. Low level mass disruption is harder than isolated significant disruption. Most classes will have challenging individuals, but what swings it is if they have a willing or resistant audience to feed or ignore them.

Generally, I loved the kids. I loved my subject. I frequently felt that I was doing something worthwhile and beneficial to society which was what attracted me to the profession. If the cultures change by the time my DCs are older, I could face a return. It certainly isn't sustainable as it is.

I can't vouch for other professions. I know many of the cultures negatively affecting teaching also affect a multitude of other professions, but teaching does have a particularly toxic combination. Over half the work is done outside visible hours, and it's that outdated perception that make teachers outspoken about the difficulties even though they aren't particularly unique to teaching.

I haven't met a genuinely happy, satisfied teacher for a long time. That's since 2010 when a massive change occured.

I love reading with my DS's class. There's such a cosy veneer to it. I can pick up some of the undertones from my list though, and no state school is totally immune to it although some have tougher cultures than others.

I honestly can’t imagine how you do it. I once wanted to be a maths teacher and I am glad I never ended up doing it.

My DD was considering starting secondary having been home ed for a few years (she is autistic and struggled in school). She decided against it and I can’t deny I am relieved, she would be eaten alive in the schools round here.

@shit...
Thanks for this. Clearly yet another idea that seems good in theory but falls down in practice.

Sounds awful. I would hate it.

Schools have changed so much in the 36 years since I left. There are so many teaching staff who don't actually teach, I went to a meeting for DS with his heads of year & SENCO, I found out while I was there that his Pastoral manager isn't a qualified teacher, she is doing a degree out of school to become a teacher, the Head of year only teaches 20% of the week, the rest of the time she does management & admin for the year she is head of, the SENCO didn't have any idea who my son was, she never actually came into contact with him. The Head of the school hides away in her office unless there is a photo opportunity to be in the local paper. Schools started to go downhill when the special schools were closed down & SEN pupils were integrated in mainstream schools & the introduction of academies killed off what quality there was left. Too much of the education budget is being spent on executive management of academies & not enough on teaching staff. DS school is more like a prison than a school, they have security staff patrolling with walkie talkies, doors are locked, if a pupil is late they first report to the main school office, then have to go to the year office to see the pastoral manager to get a slip to be allowed into lessons, if the pastoral manager is unavailable they can't go to lessons until they come back, DS was 15 minutes late as he had a medical appointment but had to go through the same process as if he was just late, if he could have gone straight to lessons he wouldn't have missed any teaching time, just registration, he missed his first two periods waiting for the pastoral manager to turn up, what's the point in that? Discipline is a joke, the worst a pupil can get short of committing murder is a day in isolation, another pupil assaulted DS 3 times, plus he slashed his bag with a blade, school didn't do anything as before he could be put in isolation his parents needed to be contacted, they refused to answer the phone to school so he went unpunished. What schools need are more staff actually teaching so that classes can be smaller, easier for staff to get to know pupils, less time spent on form filling & recording statistics, more power to be given for discipline & other subjects to be available for pupils who don't want to be in school to give them skills to be employable, what happened to typing, car maintenance, technical drawing, workshop projects, gardening, health & social care classes for less able pupils to gain those skills?

So many parents refuse to believe their child could be wrong. Their first port of call is to challenge what the school has done rather than stopping for a moment and wondering if their child might be in the wrong. They will argue til theyre blue in the face that their child is right rather than consider that their child may not have told them the full truth.

There are several reasons why I think things are so bad. The students are under more pressure than ever and their mental health is incredibly fragile, and yet there are no resources to support them. The curriculum in each subject is harder than ever and often inaccessible. One example is English Literature and forcing kids who can barely read, through an entire Shakespeare play. It is enough to make you want to weep. If we don't believe in what we are teaching, then no wonder they are disillusioned. I totally agree with individualised study programmes and college placements from a younger age for vocational courses. In terms of behaviour, a lack of support from senior management and parents are the key issues. If we don't have parents and senior staff on side, there is no help of ever stopping them behaving so terribly.

GerrysSuccessor
I'm glad someone else came on for balance.
The stories here are true, but it's not the majority of students and majority of schools.

I do think you have to choose your school well when job hunting though. For me, I don't mind if a school is outstanding or in special measures as long as management back teachers and don't pander to the loud minority who want to undermine school at every turn.

So many parents refuse to believe their child could be wrong.

Teacher - Bob was very disruptive in class today

Parent - Well what were people doing to him

Teacher - Nothing. Bob didn't want to complete the work so was shouting out to others and playing on his phone

Parent - So others were also shouting out

Teacher - No, Bob was shouting out, no one else the other students were trying to work

Parent - Yeah but you said others

Teacher - Only Bob was shouting, because he didn't want to complete the work

Parent - What was the work

Teacher - We're learning about William Shakespeare

Parent - Well he's dead aint he, why would Bob need to learn about him

And so on and so on

For those of you saying pick the right school... just a thought...i live rurally so choice is limited. I've been in a few of the reachable schools. One I lasted 15 years but it got too dangerous for me including being intimidated physically by large boy when I was pregnant. I moved to a brilliant school and was happy but the management has recently changed and the rot has set in. The school is only as good as the management.

Sadly moving doesn't offer any better options as I'm restricted with family option.

So for those lucky to be sat in a good school be aware you're only one or two poor job appointments away from the rest.

'The students are under more pressure than ever and their mental health is incredibly fragile, and yet there are no resources to support them.'

I couldn't agree with this more. Several of my friends kids are out of school altogether with anxiety. Mine is holding on by a thread.

I watched a girl on BBC school playing up a bit, you could see all over that the reason she had behaved like that was she had given up, she was struggling academically and it all seemed pointless.
She tried to remove herself from the situation and take herself to the nurture type room but they were trying to send her to the ready to learn room to work in silence.
Luckily another teacher she knew picked her up on the way and was amazing with her. She didn't need punishment as such, she needed help.

Children’s mental health is no more fragile now than it was 30 years ago. The difference is resilience. Parents who never say no. Sports days where no one loses. Parents complain if everyone doesn’t get a turn at star of the week. Prize days banned. This has created a generation of children who are not able to handle failure and can’t cope with being told they can’t have or do something. THAT damages their mental health. Along with parental neglect - whether that’s parents who can’t be arsed to get a job, get out of bed, give a shit about education or parents who have to work every hour just to keep them fed and clothed and don’t have time for reading and homework and projects.
Add in that schools are being forced to drop vocational subjects like Woodwork or Cookery as they aren’t ‘academic’ enough and children are instead being made to take Chemistry or French. Which they have zero interest in and/or are not capable of.
With children being encouraged/made to stay on at school longer there’s actually few suitable courses for them to do. If they can’t do Highers then what do they do? They have to do something so end up disinterested in a subject they can’t do/don’t like/never wanted to take and behaviour takes a huge hit.
Someone up there said that teaching is 50% invisible work which is so true. There’s still this huge perception at that 3.30 we turn off the lights and go home.
We’re one of the only professions out there where we are not allowed to refuse to teach someone who has assaulted us. Where verbal abuse is relatively normal and often unpunished.

Teachers are leaving in droves and can’t be replaced. In one authority in Scotland they started the academic year short of 150 teachers.
These children are the future of the country and they are being failed by the government and failed by their parents.
When even the best teachers who love their job are looking for a career change then there is something very far wrong with the system.

Just for balance. Secondary here. Still one my job. 21st year at it. But... I'm now in an Outstanding rural school. I've worked in many schools, done with unbearably bad behaviour. I'm in a creative subject. We have a strong SLT all over 40! We have a strong Union.

Still many teachers struggle with low level behaviour. Particularly in Year 8 and 9. It can be exhausting to keep on top of 32 kids with little support. I do favour the removal of the minority, I really do. It probably isn't fair on them, their needs aren't being met. In for the many, not the few. Sadly.

There is a lot of crap management in education but nothing will improve until we acknowledge the shocking levels of shit parenting that there is these days. Many people just don’t give a toss. No amount of liberal hand wringing to excuse their crapness will either help them, or do anything for those who are generally struggling.

Blimey, I'm not a teacher and have clearly lived in a bubble because I've read this with horror. My DD went to an all girls' grammar in Kent and there was complete respect for all staff, great affection for most of them; their aim was to attain excellent grades at GCSE and A level and get into good universities. At parents' evenings, DD used to speak earnestly to each teacher and I felt like a spare part. On the odd occasion I tried to make a small joke, I received a glare from DD and was ignored. DD was nothing out of the ordinary either - they were all the same. Mobile phones weren't permitted at all during lessons.

I find some of the above posts horrendously sad. I don't know how you put up with it.

@gazillion a union is a strong as its members. Lots of teachers contact the union thinking we can fly in and force SLT to do things. We don't have that power. The power is in collective, staff actug together to say 'no, we aren't dealing with this shit anymore'. You will often find the best schools to work in have strong unions, staff meet regularly, they elect reps and when the don't like something they act on it.

I was a secondary teacher for almost 15 years, I left 3 years ago. The behaviour deteriorated in my last school significantly in the 8 years I was there. I was assaulted several times in my last year.

I tried to take action as a union rep, but staff weren't willing to stand up. Many were worn down, worried about making a fuss etc. I don't blame them, but that is how things will change.

I work for a union now and can say I've seen real change in schools where staff have worked together, supported each other and said enough. Yes, strike action has happened on some cases. But its worked.

'There is a lot of crap management in education but nothing will improve until we acknowledge the shocking levels of shit parenting that there is these days.'

Totally agree. There's far too much boo hooing and hand wringing about how hard it is being a parent, and not nearly enough consideration of what the children actually need. And no one seems to hold parents to account for their lack of responsibility, everything is the fault of someone else

Shitgovernmentshitparents

That's very unfair and I say that as ex school staff. If your attitude to mental health is they are all kids of snowflakes then I sincerely hope you aren't a teacher.

My friends kid has attempted suicide and has not been in school for months.
She grew up with parents who say no, in a primary school that did prize giving and star of the week and sports days where they run races and win and lose.

Many of the kids I know with mental health difficulties have SEN. The reason for the change is that many of those children would have been in special school with the appropriate support.
Those in mainstream would have had the funding for support and pastoral care.
Now the vast majority are dumped in mainstream whether it's the best for them or not. Without the funding for the support they need.

We are failing a whole generation of children in a system that doesn't have the staff or funds to meet their needs and instead will leave them struggling in classrooms believing they are thick and stupid and worthless when with the right support they could do amazing.

My child once got a TA for a few weeks and made two years progress before the end of the year.
She's not at secondary school , well behaved, non disruptive , sat in classroom with no support believing she is thick and stupid and there is no point because she's going to fail anyway with no one available to make sure she can access the education system.

*now

I work in an amazing primary, a fairly strict one with firm rules but lots of fun too! We never really have serious trouble. I don't think I could ever consider moving to secondary.

The behaviour was terrible when I was a t school from some pupils (80s) but the difference was teacher would cane the kid.

People used to behave for fear of that!

I'm not saying bring that back but surely it's so far the other way now there's no incentive to behave for those kids that play up.

@feral a cane in the 80's? Wow, really? I was at school that decade and saw nothing of punishment like that.

I was thinking last night feral.
We definitely had kids in my first secondary pin teachers against the wall, spit and swear at them and throw chairs.

We had thrown board rubbers!