Aibu to think most people have no idea what it's like being a secondary teacher.

[Tiredteacherlass]

I believe that most people have no idea how bad behaviour is and how most schools have feral children and no real means of control.

I'm fed up. the shouting, the filthy language, the name calling, the drugs, the absolute lack of slt support.

Friends who transferred from other professions into teaching seem to cope better than the ones who have done nothing else.

Thats not my experience at all. I know a fair few who have moved to teaching from other professions (eg. HR, pharmaceuticals, events) and they have all found it really tough, with several of them already having left again. The ones who have never done anything else seem to be the ones sticking it out until the bitter end, and many of them have the skills needed to do other careers.

you get 13 weeks holiday a year!

Whats your point?

I told a year 2 child to stop doing something today, he looked me in the eye and said 'fucking make me' and carried on with what he was doing. I told his mum and she laughed. If that's what children are behaving like in year 2 I dread to think how bad they are in secondary. 90% of the children I work with are lovely but that 10% who aren't are hard work.

The ones who have never done anything else seem to be the ones sticking it out until the bitter end, and many of them have the skills needed to do other careers

This is also my experience. I've had friends finally reach rock bottom and leave, only to realise how much better paid and less stressed they can be in other jobs. Yes you don't get the long holidays, but that's easy to give up when you also leave behind all the other crap that comes with teaching.

There's a real sense of entitlement among children. They know there are no 'real' consequences.
They watch too much TV, stay up late, play too many video games, spend too much time of social media and come to school knackered.
They genuinely don't see what they're doing wrong most of the time, because they're so molly coddled they're entire lives.

Ofsted's latest comments are good, trying to explain its down to home to support students, teachers/ school can't be expected to raise their children. Our job is to educate.

Both my parents were teachers. Can't tell you how relieved I was when I grew up and realised it wasn't normal to hate your job!

However, I'd add that teachers don't know what anyone else's job is like either.

True, though obviously I know the jobs of my DH, my family and my friends. Most do talk about them in various ways. Many of them are in professional careers, earning a lot of money (way way more than any teacher I know though have a similar level of education/qualifications) and yes, doing a stressful, difficult and busy job.

Most don't seem to be leaving their careers in droves though, or putting up with verbal and physical assault from their 'clients' often though. And most seem to be doing less hours overall - even the ones on 6 figure salaries.

I actually don't think teaching is an awful job. I loved it for several years, and love where I teach now. It can be one of the most rewarding jobs ever. Where I am now I love my job. Yes, I work hard, I do long hours, it can be stressful, I get dreadful pay (though I teach every day I am not actually paid as a teacher) and I have to deal with some tricky, and sometimes quite harrowing, cases regularly but as a job, I love it. I have immediate rewards all day. It's a career that can be absolutely amazing.

However, when there are issues it is just awful and with no real way to go. If management won't support you then its basically just leave - a career down the drain. By the time I left I just didn't want to be near teaching ever again. It took me a fair while to even consider teaching in any form again, or even go into a school!

Hell on earth. I qualified did a few months and that was it!

Last time I started a thread about behaviour on here. I was told by quite a few that behaviour has always been bad and nothing has changed.

I think even Aristotle was mentioned.

I agree though OP. The listening skills and the respect of simple property such as glue sticks is unbelievable.

I believe that most people have no idea how bad behaviour is and how most schools have feral children and no real means of control.

The same can be said of some primary schools

I couldn't do it and have the greatest respect for people who do.

I dread to think of what all of these shitty kids we be like when they grow up.

Wittow Thu 06-Dec-18 20:46:57
you get 13 weeks holiday a year!

We get 13 weeks unpaid time (well, think its 9 actually as we get statutory 4 weeks paid iirr, without the children being there.

But hey - go for it! Great time off, why not give it a go.

Those calling for a different school system... does the flaws in the current one really excuse the behaviours described above? Would you honestly be okay with your teenager speaking to a teacher like that?

do the flaws, before anyone jumps on me.

You get 13 weeks holiday a year!

@Avegemitesandwich yes!! We do! And there's a massive teacher shortage (can't imagine why ) so ... why not join us?!

Leave. Try another school. I worked at two horrible school where appalling language, threatening behaviour and verbal and physical assault was commonplace. I felt so awfully sorry for the little year 7s being subjected to such a shitty environment. I hated that I couldn't provide the classroom environment I wanted for the lovely kids, no matter what I did. SLT hid in their offices and the deputy head had a slushie thrown at him WHILE HE VISITED A CLASSROOM!

I went back into my industry for a few years and then got lured back by a college, which wasn't as bad but pretty much as another poster described. Then landed in a non selective girls school with an inner city deprived intake... Blew my tiny little mind. I didn't think disciple existed anymore but it does but you have to be really on the ball when viewing a school. Staff turnover is the major factor, if the school is great staff never leave because they are like hens teeth. My school isn't perfect, I still get the odd hissy fit, eye roll and hair flick but that's pretty much as bad as it gets. Vote with your feet and put yourself first. I can have a good 50 minutes of focused silent work with lower school if I need it without asking more than twice! And upper school come in, sit down and get on with their projects and I get to spend 1-1 time with each!!!

A new arrival from a another school said to me yesterday "It's so lovely and peaceful here, I can actually concentrate!" Made my frickin day!

I have a lot of sympathy for teachers....but ultimately if it is THAT bad, they need to leave.

There are many professions that would claim the same unimaginable pressures - Doctors, Nurses, Social Workers, Police, Teachers etc - all claiming that there role is unique and that the stresses cannot be easily understood.

However things do not change if people are not willing to make a stand. The very people in theses professions are their own worst enemies (source - I am one of the above). We refuse the back down and do theses roles because we genuinely want to help people. The issues is that central government have either removed or cut all support available and as a result the good people in these professions 'make it work' - because it's not us that suffers if it goes wrong.

If all teachers were to say 'no more' the government would have no choice but to pay attention. However this will never happen and the wheel keeps turning.

Reading this thread I am going to save like crazy for private school for my DD. I hated secondary school, I am 43, it was something to “get through”. I wasn’t popular, it sounds much worse now.

Wittow suspect you're being deliberately goady or thick as shit but no, they don't. Did you read the post upthread about the DP who has to mark 180 papers during his Xmas 'holiday'?

I think a big difference over recent years is the attitude of some parents - usually parents who you can tell had a bad experience of school themselves. They don't want to engage, because to them school has negative connotations; they don't have any problem with undermining what a teacher has said or a school rule etc because they disliked school so much themselves. I speak to the parents of the most challenging, difficult pupils regularly and so many times I end up thinking that there's no wonder X cannot ever follow instructions or accept any consequences - it's learnt behaviour. They've grown up seeing school as the enemy.

The world is too soft these days. Really feel esp for secondary school teachers. Many Kids have no discipline these days (parents are pushed to breaking trying to earn enough money to keep their house) when parents are so tired it’s often easier just to not nip small issues in the bud. There’s been too much focus on freedom for children, rather than teaching them to abide by rules (often the parents break the rules themselves) nopolice in parks to make sure groups of teenagers are not misbehaving, smoking weed. I think upto the age of 16 parents should be held accountable for their child’s actions. Everything these days is about rights not responsibilities- it’s prevalent in society as a whole. Teachers (and well behaved pupils) shouldn’t have to deal with this crap. Schools should be able to have a three strikes and you’re out policy, the out being a very strict regimented school with zero tolerance policies, the next level after that should be residential/borstal arrangements to maintain discipline 24/7

They are leaving. They are leaving in droves.

...cramming kids into small rooms to listen to an ‘expert’ is ridiculously outdated when everyone has a small device in their pocket who can give them more facts than the expert ever could.

How do you know if the device in your pocket is telling you facts or not? How do you know if the information is current or outdated? How do you access knowledge and experience that is in someone's head, not on the 'net? Google isn't the answer to everything.

I'm an expert in my field, and a bit of internet surfing can in no way replace my expertise.

I dont know what being a secondary school teacher is like but the behaviour some are describing on this thread is certainly not what would be tolerated at ds' school thank fuck. I'm sure they have disruptive and challenging kids too but pissing about in class and cheeking teachers (let alone swearing at them) just isnt tolerated.

Those calling for a different school system... does the flaws in the current one really excuse the behaviours described above? Would you honestly be okay with your teenager speaking to a teacher like that?

I agreez

In addition,how would a more suitable system work? People would still need child care and staff to children ratios. The behaviour would still exist no matter what they were doing surely?

I would be interested to hear the idea of a more up to date system though. How would it work?