To think you can't be a "nice guy" if you use prostitutes for sex?

[NotMyOriginalName1]

Or can you?

In short, somebody I've known for a number of years openly admits to visiting sex workers and has deluded himself into believing he's one of the good guys and isn't exploitative. He spouts bullshit about having respect for the women he sees and thinks they adore his charming company.

I've lost what respect I have for him.

Unbeknownst to him I have personal experience of these situations, I was a sex worker in my late teens and what lead me there was an abusive relationship. I never felt respected by one single 'customer' in fact it was the 'good guys' who made my skin crawl the most.

Aibu to say he's an exploitative c-u-next-tuesday or am I jaded as a result my own trauma?

I know this makes no difference to the majority of posters on this but @tinty the people I know who do this do often (and I mean often) get taken for a drink or dinner before and it all costs much more than 50 quid.

That does not make an arguement against those who feel it is just fundamentally wrong. I am not putting that out there that more money makes more excuses.

I just think that you cannot judge every man who pays for sex as a scumbag

I have known people very, very close to me doing this kind of work @tinty and that’s where my view has come from

I just think that you cannot judge every man who pays for sex as a scumbag

I don't think there's anything a man could tell me about why he paid someone for sex that would make me think his actions weren't those of a scumbag.

They may have redeeming features, they may have suffered hideous injustices, they may be able to come back from their behaviour and go on to make reasonable human beings on the balance of their actions....

But someone who pays someone for sex is always a scumbag in that moment. Always.

I just think that you cannot judge every man who pays for sex as a scumbag

I and the many other posters can indeed judge punters to be scumbags. We don't need your approval or permission.

I portrayed the "I'm doing this simply because I love sex and the money is just a bonus" bollocks and perfected the act accordingly but in reality it was anything but.

Thank you for this comment OP which does bear repeating, as the 'some people just like the easy money and are just fine doing sex work' line is trotted out again, and again, and again whenever sex work is discussed on here. It's good to hear the conterpoint.

I hope you've found peace too

I'm very aware that due to my own experiences my opinion could be considered biased

I don't call that biased, I call that knowledge.

After all, it is perfectly possible he regularly goes rape a woman who is in the very same situation you were in.

If you assumed all men were scum because you met a lot of men who were, that would be biased.
But you didn't. You thought he was lovely until he blithely admitted to not caring about women who are in the same situation you were.

Oh yes the tragic mostly middle aged, men off to Thailand twice a year.
I knew someone like this, he gave me the creeps as a teenager and I couldn’t tell why. 10 years later he’s off to Thailand twice a year for a “holiday” and comes back and tells people what he’s been up to.

Dh and I cut all contact with the slimey bastard.

YANBU

They may have redeeming features, they may have suffered hideous injustices, they may be able to come back from their behaviour and go on to make reasonable human beings on the balance of their actions...

But they also believe sex is their right and if no-one is going to give it to them for free they'll have to pay for it. Scum. Totally agree with you Rat

No and those people whose choose that path do not need yours. @lass

I think everyone’s opinion is valid and I feel very much for those people who have been damaged by the sex industry. I was just offering my view.

I think the circumstances of the 'bookings' and money spent is likely to distort the customers view in regards to the sex workers willingness and whether or not she's desperate.

If a customer is visiting a girl on the street who is quite clearly in the grips of a drug addiction then the fact she's not doing it because she wants to be should be glaringly obvious.

However if a customer is visiting a girl who market's herself as an independent escort and she accompanies him to nice hotels and restaurants he's more inclined to believe she enjoys the lifestyle.

My "fee" was £150 per hour and I regularly joined them for dinner, met at hotels and spent several hours in their company but that did nothing to take away from the fact that my "boyfriend" at home was sat watching the clock and waiting for me to get back so he could begin spending the money I'd got, or the fact I'd be equally as clock-watchy just wanting them to get it over with so I could get up and leave.

Upon reflection it makes my skin crawl that middle aged men with tons of life experience felt as though they had any business "befriending" and exploiting a naive eighteen year old.

Wrt the 'nice guy' angle - he could never be nice, because he could never ascertain that the woman he has entered into this transaction with is among the women who are actually fine with it. You can't read someone else's thoughts, you don't know their situation. I bet he never meets up with a woman, pays her upfront for her time, making it clear this is a one-time thing for him, and then bothers having an honest chat with her to see what exactly the circumstances surrounding her offering such services are. It's only in that situation, where she's reassured that she's not losing out on income or potential future business if she tells the truth, that you can be reasonably sure you've got a clear view of things. If you pay someone to be nice to you you can't take their being nice as proof that they like you. But then if you don't really see someone as having a mind like your own it's very easy to spin a more comfortable version of the truth.

OP and vampire

The "good guys" wouldn't have any trouble finding someone to share their bed with consensually.

^Rubbish. I know a good guy who has been single for 8 years. He can’t find a girlfriend but is a really nice person.

YANBU. There are plenty of ways these days of accessing no-strings sex, if that's what someone wants. There's nothing at all wrong with wanting sex.

However men who use prostitutes don't want to hook up with a willing woman who's also after sex, because then that woman would be their equal. A woman who likes sex, wants sex, and has gone out to get it is not what they are looking for.

These men don't see women as their equal. They see women as a commodity, as something to be bought, and someone they can exert their power over.

NotMyOriginalName, I'm sorry that you went through this, really sorry. I do believe that there is always a vulnerability in women that leads them to sex working. Perhaps the situation has got so dire that the practice will be regulated to the hilt and the light being shone on the industry will bring about some good.

Trafficked workers seem to have no rights over their own lives and I can imagine the situations where they find themselves being completely opposite to what they thought they were embarking on. Pimps I have no time/tolerance for whatsoever. Just more ways of making money from women who haven't the choice or freedom for other ways of making a living and that is abhorrent to me. I'm visiting a women's prison next week and it's clear that most if not all inmates, are there because of a man applying pressure and force. It's disgraceful.

What do we do though about prostitution? Do we outlaw it? Give those men no opportunity to abuse and debase women? What do we do with those women who make a living from this and know no other? How do we support them? Find them and bring them into societal 'norms' of making a living. How do we do that and what if they don't agree/trust? Who would do this anyway, bring about all this change?

Rat it's not the OP that I was talking about with the 'spouting off' comment. It's the knee-jerkers.

No, the men who visit prostitutes are not 'nice men' but neither is anybody else who wangs on about it and does nothing but hand-wring. It's irritating. What do people actually DO when they actually care about this?

As for the nice guys who liked to call themselves friends, I ask myself if they weren't buying my body would they have any desire to befriend me under normal circumstances? Most definitely not as we have absolutely nothing in common.

With a lot of these men it's about exerting power and control over a situation.

No one wakesnuo one day and thinks to themselves I'll have sex for money.

I'm a sex worker and I chose to go I to this industry of my own accord. In my experience women in the sex industry have a bad time when their work is controlled by others or they have been forced into prostitution. Fortunately this is the minority of sex workers.

People who know nothing about the industry, or have heard one account and assume that this is the norm, are of course entitled to their opinion, but their opinion is just an uninformed assumption.

I'm a sex worker and I chose to go I to this industry of my own accord. In my experience women in the sex industry have a bad time when their work is controlled by others or they have been forced into prostitution. Fortunately this is the minority of sex workers

The minority? Only every sex worker that people on the thread have met or are/were themselves besides you.

And that's not an uninformed assumption either. I know a bit about it myself...

@lyingwitch
Huge admiration for doing something rather than just sitting judging.

I believe legalised prostitution would actually make everyone a lot safer. It’s legal in Singapore where chewing gum is not!! They seem to realise having safety around both the ‘offerers’ and ‘seekers’

Unfortunately I have to see this man on a regular basis and he can't be avoided without causing a fuss among other people so I'm going to have to grit my teeth and bare it when I encounter him next.

I showed a genuine interest as to why he does what he does and tried for the most part not to come across as judgemental as I didn't want to out myself for obvious reasons.

He sees it as easy no strings sex that doesn't require the effort of having to date and get to know the women, he thinks they're nymphomaniacs who must love swinging from the chandeliers with random men and the bit that struck me the most was when he said he can try things he's always wanted to do without feeling the embarrassment or rejection of bringing it up with non sex workers who probably wouldn't be into it.

The latter makes me want to face-palm. He KNOWS that most women wouldn't be interested in doing whatever it is he's "into" without being given an incentive, the incentive in a lot of cases depending on the sex workers circumstances removes their ability to say no because they need the money.

www.myhandicap.com/en/information-disability-chonical-illness/relationships-and-sexuality/sexuality-and-disability/sexual-assistance-for-disabled-people/

Are these men also scum?

I just don’t think the whole question of sex workers and their clients can be viewed in either good or bad.

@bogling. Go you! If you are happy then never feel judged. I think it’s the judgement of others that is often the most crippling.

Do what you feel ok with and if you don’t please stop immediately and reach out.

I know this makes no difference to the majority of posters on this but @tinty* the people I know who do this do often (and I mean often) get taken for a drink or dinner before and it all costs much more than 50 quid.*

Well, you should have said, of course it makes a huge difference that they took them for dinner and a drink first and paid more than £50. Of course they are not scummy twats then, they are just nice men, stupid me.

Nope, still think they are scumbags, just in case you couldn't see the sarcasm.

I believe legalised prostitution would actually make everyone a lot safer. It’s legal in Singapore where chewing gum is not!! They seem to realise having safety around both the ‘offerers’ and ‘seekers’

Hasnt worked very well in holbeck. It's resulted in rapes and abductions and children and women being harassed frequently