To think you can't be a "nice guy" if you use prostitutes for sex?

[NotMyOriginalName1]

Or can you?

In short, somebody I've known for a number of years openly admits to visiting sex workers and has deluded himself into believing he's one of the good guys and isn't exploitative. He spouts bullshit about having respect for the women he sees and thinks they adore his charming company.

I've lost what respect I have for him.

Unbeknownst to him I have personal experience of these situations, I was a sex worker in my late teens and what lead me there was an abusive relationship. I never felt respected by one single 'customer' in fact it was the 'good guys' who made my skin crawl the most.

Aibu to say he's an exploitative c-u-next-tuesday or am I jaded as a result my own trauma?

I speak from experience as an ex sexworker btw.

I'm also fed up of idiots conflating trafficked women with fully informed and consensual sexwork. They are not the same thing.

@penisbeakers

They can become entwined though, sex work and trafficking.

I never thought it would happen to me, until I was being locked in rooms, drugged up waiting for men. And those men wouldn't care what state I was in. Which is a stark contrast to when I started and had to have a full face on.

No, not all clients are like that but it is the majority!

Also thank you all, I am still moving on and rebuilding bridges etc. It hasn't been easy. I'd never ever recommend that any person (male or female) should get into sex work. I've seen many side to the industry and it's disgusting no matter what angle you look at it from.

I'm sure there are nice guys who pay for sex, but I think they're possibly in the minority.

penisbeakers I wouldn't want to patronise sex workers. I expect you're far better placed to judge the character of these men than I am.

I understand prostitution when it's men/women who are severely disfigured or handicapped, so obviously it can be difficult for them to find love but still have needs.
But other than that I will always judge someone for using a prostitute.
Feel the same about people and strippers. It's pretty gross.
Nothing against the sex worker or stripper though, who probably has their reasons.

None of those things make someone not a nice guy.

Yes they do, because every single one of them boils down to "I can't/don't want/am not comfortable with having sex the standard way, but I am still entitled to have sex so I'll pay someone for it."

Telling people who object to this that no no no, these are nice men too, just ladles on the entitlement. So not only are they entitled to sex with some women, they're entitled to comfort and support from all other women for it? Nah.

Drawing upon my own experience of this particular industry, which is completely different to that of the OP's, I can say that I do believe one can be a nice guy and pay for sex. I have had my fair share of bookings with genuinely pleasant people, some of whom I saw regularly and a handful of those I now call friends. Countless older men who lost their spouses, and were looking for sex, superficially, but actually wanted a bit of affection, a reason to smile, something to make them feel good about themselves.

Younger men with confidence issues, too shy to make a move with a girl they liked, needing a confidence boost and a bit of advice to go with that blowjob... smile

I struggle with this. Why do some older men feel the need to pay for sex with women (who wouldn’t be having sex with them otherwise), to feel good about themselves? Like men’s happiness is tied up with using women’s bodies. It just seems so detached, I’m not sure I could consider these men to be good men.

Same with younger men and their confidence. It seems like men’s masculinity, confidence, happiness is all tied up in having sex with women (even if they have to pay for it, and the women don’t really want to).

The entitlement and detached feeling just doesn’t sit right with me. Not sure how these are good men. It’s like the men who say that they’re a “good guy” and can’t understand why women go for the bad guys etc. Then later you find out what they’re really like.

Plenty of blokes visit sexworkers for tons of reasons, yes many of them are cheating arseholes but here is a list of men who use sexworkers and aren't shits:

• Men who don't have time for a relationship and want access to sex.
• Men with disabilities who wouldn't ordinarily have a sex life because of that.
• Men who don't want a relationship, but also don't want to chance a random encounter in a pub, or hookup site, so they pay a sexworker.*
• Men who have suffered abuse and need to gradually learn sexual intimacy again if that's what they want to achieve
• This list is not exhaustive

Men who pay for these services are not automatically the sleazeballs you're trying to portray. Women providing these services are not to be looked down upon. Grow up

Nothing on that list justifies buying a female body to wank into. Some , such as saying abuse victims need to use the services of prostitutes are poisonous. All you are doing is pushing the agenda that men must be able to have sex, men need sex, men are entitled to have sex.

No one on this thread is "looking down on" women who are prostitutes. The contempt is solely for the scummy punters, regardless of whatever pathetic excuse is made for them.

It's extraordinary how contempt for punters is interpreted as contempt for prostitutes. It's almost as if there is some deliberate misunderstanding going on......

Thanks Bertrand

Yes it is an interesting agenda. Of course it gets spun into the "nasty feminists and evangelical Christians unite in being anti-sex"

is interpreted as contempt for prostitutes. It's almost as if there is some deliberate misunderstanding going on......

Spot on, @BertrandRussell no one has said anything negative about the women involved in sex work, because they're doing what they're doing for all sorts of reasons. There are obviously some that made a free choice, but there are also others who have been forced into it by criminal gangs and others who were forced into it through circumstances.

All the negative comments have been directed at the punters, who, however you look at it, are treating women's bodies as commodities that can be bought.

men who have needs

Let's be clear here. Sex is NOT a need. No one ever died from not having sex. It's a want. Wanting something does not give you a right to have it. Certainly not at any cost.
Demanding what you want no matter who might get hurt in order for you to have it is not "nice" behaviour.

Men 'who have needs' also have hands

I've known more than one sex worker who describes themselves as providing 'healing' services and even being a kind of counselor to needy and damaged men.

They project an online image of being 'in control' and happy with their 'choice.'

Behind the scenes, every single one of them has serious mental health issues, an inability to be able to find alternative work, poverty and abuse issues. Every single one.

And, they ALL, behind the scenes, think men are awful and hate them.

But they can't get clients, or sell online clips, or get 'tributes' or have men come to visit to pay for sex without portraying the idea that it's all a nice 'healing service'.

So I never believe anyone who says that it's all about a service that people are happy to provide, for the poor menz who just need that extra bit of female loving.

That attitude is just yet another way to make women responsible for men's sexual and emotional needs. It keeps the women trapped in this sort of work and desperate to keep up the portrayal it is not as disempowering, skeevy, nasty and re-traumatizing for them. It makes women a party to their own degradation and objectification and every person who promotes the myth that sex work is empowering and done for beautiful, altruistic reasons is helping to keep these women trapped in their abuse.

You Stop it.

Totally agree with Lass and Bert here, as always.

Nothing on that list justifies buying a female body to wank into.

That should be available on a t-shirt.

Yep, all my contempt is reserved solely for the punters.

I understand prostitution when it's men/women who are severely disfigured or handicapped, so obviously it can be difficult for them to find love but still have needs.

That's implying sex is a need. I think it's a want.

All the reasons given on thread have not changed my mind that it boils down to men wanting sex, and because they are not able to/can't be arsed/don't have time or just don't want to obtaining consent that's been given freely they purchase it.

The very act of purchasing sexual consent keeps coming back to they want sex and rather than go without if they can get freely given consent, they'll buy it.

Why are a few saying we shouldn't judge sex workers when nobody has said they look down on women in sex work? Only people I keep seeing mention judging sex workers are the ones trying to say buying sexual consent is a thing nice men do.

And also, for the posters who say they are totally happy and do or have done sex work through genuine free choice, what steps to the men booking you take beforehand so they know you one hundred percent are selling consent because you actually want to be a sex worker? Do they tell you how they know you're one of the happy ones not being coerced into the job?

I do let judge any woman in sex work be through free choice or coerced. I judge the men buying consent when they don't know for sure which they are buying from.

I do not

Stupid phone

I reckon the want/need thing is analogous to alcohol... if you want it, fine but if you need it you may have a problem.

I understand prostitution when it's men/women who are severely disfigured or handicapped, so obviously it can be difficult for them to find love but still have needs.

As others pointed out, it is a want, not a need.

Either you aren't disfigured so badly and can still find someone. If you have a great personality, there's the internet so you don't have to show people your face right at the beginning.

Or you are so disfigured that absolutely everyone who sees you runs away screaming.
If I looked like that (though I am not sure that's even possible, people can get used to a lot), paying someone so he lets me use his body for sex while silent tears stream down his face and he shakes in terror ... wouldn't really seem appealing to me.

Recreational sex is fun, it is not a need. I don't care how many punters say it is or how loudly or how often they say it.

Meaningful connections with other people are necessary for the vast majority of people's mental health. Those connections can be all or any of friends, family, partners, neighbours, colleagues, lovers, even the person you copped off with on a Saturday night.

If you are unable to make these connections except by paying someone to connect with you, you might be better spending the money on a therapist or counsellor than a prostitute.