To think you can't be a "nice guy" if you use prostitutes for sex?

[NotMyOriginalName1]

Or can you?

In short, somebody I've known for a number of years openly admits to visiting sex workers and has deluded himself into believing he's one of the good guys and isn't exploitative. He spouts bullshit about having respect for the women he sees and thinks they adore his charming company.

I've lost what respect I have for him.

Unbeknownst to him I have personal experience of these situations, I was a sex worker in my late teens and what lead me there was an abusive relationship. I never felt respected by one single 'customer' in fact it was the 'good guys' who made my skin crawl the most.

Aibu to say he's an exploitative c-u-next-tuesday or am I jaded as a result my own trauma?

Most people generally accept that it is actually ok to be pretty bloody biased about the ethnic, religious backgrounds and appearance of the penises entering one's body without being called to account under discriminatory legislation

To be honest if you are 'pretty bloody biased' about penises (or men) on the basis of ethnic or religious background I would call that discrimination regardless of whether or not you are charging.

I do however stand by the fact that sex workers, much like hotels and bars, do not have to provide services to anyone they are not comfortable with.

And yet it is happening in New Zealand, who have decriminalised. Germany, on the other hand, have legalised.

Why isn't it happening in Germany, though?

Prostituted women have nothing to fear (except being made to pay taxes, being registered as being prostitutes for tax purposes, et cetera, which I have been informed is the same with decriminalisation), punters have nothing to fear, so why is trafficking not going down?

It might be to do with the fact that New Zealand is an island. I am quite surprised there even is trafficking, to be honest. It seems to me that it would be quite complicated to smuggle foreign women who don't speak the language (which is of course harder to do with English than German, anyway) into the country by ship.

Do you think therefore a prostitute who for example does not like Chinese men no matter how "nice" they are, should be vulnerable to anti- discrimination legislation if she refuses a Chinese punter?

If she is refusing him because she does not like Chinese people in general, then I would consider it discrimination, yes.

In practice I think it would be extremely difficult to prove though.

To be honest if you are 'pretty bloody biased' about penises (or men) on the basis of ethnic or religious background I would call that discrimination regardless of whether or not you are charging.

You seem to think that all women are required to think like prostitutes, "whether or not you are charging".

That's exactly why I want to abolish prostitution.

I don't want to be guilted into having sex with males I don't find attractive.

If anyone hasn't seen the video below, worth a watch. I work near the area and in my experience it represents a microcosm of what is the reality of sex work across the UK, and what is happening in every town.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p05gh68d/sex-map-of-britain-series-1-5-four-pounds-for-sex

And yet it is happening in New Zealand, who have decriminalised. Germany, on the other hand, have legalised.

Why isn't it happening in Germany, though?

Because there are differences between legalisation and decriminalisation.

Legalisation focuses on regulation and registration by introducing prostitution specific laws. Decrim focuses on removing sex work specific laws, to treat sex workers as humans.

Registration of sex workers only increases the stigma, when there is no need.

It might be to do with the fact that New Zealand is an island. I am quite surprised there even is trafficking, to be honest. It seems to me that it would be quite complicated to smuggle foreign women who don't speak the language (which is of course harder to do with English than German, anyway) into the country by ship.

I have heard this argument many times. Whether or not you believe New Zealand has a problem with human trafficking, it does (as all countries do).

Perhaps trafficking is not going down in Germany, or up in New Zealand, because human trafficking and prostitution are not the same thing.

Your boundaries are skewed. People usually have preferences based on physical attraction to a person.

This.

If refusing to have sex with a man because he is Chinese is discriminatory, then I don't even want to know what you think of my unwillingness to have sex with most men because they are too ugly, don't agree with my political opinions or aren't intelligent enough (or all three together, in many cases.)

I don't need a reason to not have sex with a man. I need a very good reason to have sex with a man.

Your boundaries are skewed. People usually have preferences based on physical attraction to a person. Most don't provide open access to their genitals to anyone who will pay.

Having a preference is not the same thing as being biased based on religion or ethnicity.

Just to be clear, I do not offer open access to my genitals to anyone who will pay. One of the many misconceptions about sex workers is that we see anyone who will pay. Most of us do not.

You have made your opinions about me very clear, but please stop twisting my words.

Oh you are really showing your true colours now.

To be honest if you are 'pretty bloody biased' about penises (or men) on the basis of ethnic or religious background I would call that discrimination regardless of whether or not you are charging

Choosing who one wants to fuck is absolutely 100% up to the person concerned. No matter what their reasons.

I do however stand by the fact that sex workers, much like hotels and bars, do not have to provide services to anyone they are not comfortable with

Not correct. A hotel has no right to refuse service on ethnic grounds etc. A woman should always be entitled to refuse to service a penis no matter how biased, prejudiced or unreasonable you think that reason is.

I think I have made it clear (to anyone who has read my entire posts, rather than taking parts of them out of context) that I completely respect any woman (sex worker or non sex worker) to refuse to have sex with anyone.

If that refusal is based solely on religion/race (and the client would have been accepted if they were not of that religion/race) then it is discrimination.

Likewise, licenced premises can refuse service to anyone, however if that refusal is based on religion/race (and they would have been accepted if they were not of that race/religion) then it is discrimination.

Oh you are really showing your true colours now.

It is quite clear that you decided what sort of person I am when I said I was a sex worker.

Choosing who one wants to fuck is absolutely 100% up to the person concerned. No matter what their reasons.

Yes, I agree. If a person is offering sex as a commercial service (as I am) however, and refuses to see someone of a particular race or religion (for only that reason) then it is discrimination. I would absolutely, 100% respect their decision not to see the client, but it is a form of discrimination none the less.

You would expect someone doing that to be sued for discrimination due to refusing to have sex with a punter? That would be a desirable outcome for you?

@boglingtoaswad well done for putting your case across to people who it seems are not open to listen.

Like it or not it is an industry that is in operation and it would be best if we could make it as safe as possible for everyone and stop the judgement.

@LassWiADelicateAir it's not uncommon for a sex worker to turn down a specific ethnic community or race, they have varied reasons for doing so though.

I used to see several online adverts in the same sections as my own which specifically said they do not see asian / middle Eastern males, they often accompanied this with an explanation that they'd had bad experiences with individuals from those groups.

YANBU OP. But some people set the bar very low for men to be considered 'nice guys'.

You are not doing your "sex work" stance a favour by writing things like:

I would call that discrimination regardless of whether or not you are charging

Thereby implying that all woman are required in your worldview to service men as would a prostitute, and our only choice is to charge or do it for free.

That just confirms our suspicions that as long as there's prostitution, all women are treated as prostitutes.

I stand by my opinion that punters ought to be punished.
Even if that in some mysterious ways leads to more criminal pimps or whatever, it does seem that punishing punters changes society in such a way that women who aren't prostitutes aren't treated any longer as "prostitutes who don't charge".

Nope.
Sex workers are mostly exploited and abused (I accept that perhaps a VERY small percentage have a choice in the matter).
He is compliant with the abuse of vulnerable women, and with everything that goes along with the sex trade- including human trafficking.
No way is he a "nice guy"
It's not exactly hard to go out and find a one night stand for free, either!

Someone who is not a sex worker cannot be sued for refusing to have sex with people of a specific ethnic group. But if she tells people that everyone of a specific ethnicity is unacceptable to her as a potential partner because of that ethnicity, people may consider her racist, and they may have a point. It's possible that if she states her distaste for [people of specific ethnicity] in very derogatory terms, in public, that she might be charged with hate speech.

Independent sex workers frequently refuse clients for a variety of reasons: the client is drunk or high on the phone; the client demands specific services the sex worker doesn't offer; the client tries to bargain for a lower fee, etc. One side effect of the awful FOSTA/SESTA laws and the shutting down of websites which sex workers previously used to advertise has been an increase in the number of unacceptable clients, and the openly stated views of some clients that they can now mistreat sex workers with impunity 'because they will have to be less choosy or starve'.

and the openly stated views of some clients that they can now mistreat sex workers with impunity 'because they will have to be less choosy or starve'.

How charming.

yes, I agree. If a person is offering sex as a commercial service (as I am) however, and refuses to see someone of a particular race or religion (foronlythat reason) then it is discrimination. I would absolutely, 100% respect their decision not to see the client, but it is a form of discrimination none the less

If prostitution were to be treated as a legitimate service then, like any other j
like any other service provider, a prostitute could be sued under discrimination legislation.

It's not uncommon for a sex worker to turn down a specific ethnic community or race, they have varied reasons for doing so though.

I used to see several online adverts in the same sections as my own which specifically said they do not see asian / middle Eastern males, they often accompanied this with an explanation that they'd had bad experiences with individuals from those groups.

A legitimate business can't do that. If prostitution and brothels are treated as legitimate businesses that would be illegal.

I think women should be free to say no for whatever reason they like when it comes to choosing men who stick their dick in them.

If it's legalised and treat like any ither job then these discrimination laws will apply to the men who hire sex workers? As in if they refuse to employ or end a booking with a woman because he learns she has a penis then they can be sued for transphobia?

Another thing I've been thinking about, if you walk out of employment or quit a job it's hard to claim Jobseeker's Allowance. Would this force women who no longer want to sell consent and want to leave to continue when they don't want to because it will be difficult to claim job seekers?

Also if it's legalised and treat like a job like no other then adverts for sex workers would start appearing, would a woman on benefits be sanctioned for refusing that job?

About fifteen years when I was in my early twenties a man at the job centre suggested I apply for a vacancy that had just come in, and handed me the little card thing they used to have in walls, it was for a topless waitress, he said I'd be perfect for it as I was pretty and had a nice figure, I felt uncomfortable by him even suggesting it and commenting on my body but I could say no and not be punished for it. Would that be case nowt would I have job seekers stopped for refusing a job I was able to do?

So long as he sources his sex responsibly, then not a problem.

He's not "sourcing his sex" ffs, he's paying women to bypass their otherwise lack of consent. It's not possible to be "responsible" when buying sex because the punter has no way of knowing whether the woman is being coerced or desperate.

I honestly can't fathom how people think using prostitutes isn't rape. They're having sex on the condition they're paid otherwise they wouldn't touch him with a barge pole. It's not consensual in any way shape or form.

I saw this on Facebook earlier and think it sums up just why prostitution is buying rape.