To think that girls are not taught about the realities of conceiving?

[Cocopops2010]

AIBU to think that young girls are not properly taught about the realities (and potential difficulties) in getting pregnant?
When I was at school (90s and 2000s) my sex education classes left me with the impression that one night of unprotected sex would almost certainly leave me pregnant. Oral sex could leave me pregnant. 'Heavy petting' could make me pregnant. Condoms can split or have holes in them so you need to also be on the pill. You can get pregnant any time of the month even when you are on your period. If you did have any trouble getting pregnant, then there is always IVF which 100% works.

Now, I realise that technically the above could be true in a very small number of cases. Then I hit my 30s and suddenly a number of my friends are having huge problems conceiving, IVF is not always available on the NHS and privately is hugely expensive.

So, do you think that really girls at school should be taught that actually there will only be 1-2 days a month that you can get pregnant, and that it might actually not be that easy?

Am fully prepared to be shot down in flames and called un-feminist etc...

However a number of my friends are really struggling to conceive now, and yes ok the information is out there that it is more difficult to conceive in your 30s, but in my experience you don't really start to read about this kind of stuff until you actually want to conceive... it's a tricky one I know...

I'm 28 and I have been deluged with information about conception since school. I have friends who had kids at 14/15 from one night; and a few now who are nearing 30 and are struggling - probably more that I don't know about. At 25, my company at the time (FTSE100) offered me egg freezing that they would contribute to.

I've only recently started to be "ready" to be thinking about conception; but I can't use social media or most of the internet without being reminded about how hard it can be and how long you have to wait to get help from a dr and what helps your chances and what doesn't... and especially, that at 30, fertility starts to decline.

I wouldn't change sex education to make it seem that you'd need to be unlucky to have kids. I would encourage people to be aware that you don't have your whole life to have kids, and that after 30, it may get considerably harder. But I don't think we're doing a bad job of that; either. It's like anything, really - if you don't research it, you may not know enough about it.

@keely71

lots of misunderstanding around pregnancy.

I agree it does get harder to conceive the older you get, but there are plenty of women who get accidentally pregnant in their 40’s, I’m sure I read there’s more terminations now in the 40+ age group than teenagers.

It’s not just one or two days you can get pregnant, sperm can live for around a week.

Can you post a link with proof to these outlandish 'facts' you are posting?

Yeaaah, of COURSE you can easily get preggers over 40. LOADS of women do, more of them have abortions than teenagers ya know. And sperm lives in the woman's fanjo for a WEEK after the man ejaculates.

Where are you getting all this from?

In fairness @Jeanclaudejackety its hugely variable by area, education level, income - a whole host of factors.

I've just counted up the people I've invited to my 30th birthday (which is coming up very soon ) - of 22 women aged 30 or over, two have children. It's really unusual in my circle to have a baby before 30.

Pressed send too soon. That sort of sex Ed never made any sort of impact on teenage pregnancies except probably a negative one. It was the go-to policy for combatting teenage pregnancy the whole of the 90s and 00s when teenage pregnancies rocketed. The rate of teenage pregnancies has fallen dramatically in recent years, but that’s because it has become a far harder path to walk with benefits that have been cut or frozen and no social housing available, so long stretches in temporary housing and not very nice housing when it’s permanent. Other things like a changing teenage culture where alcohol and casual sex are not encouraged also helped.

The thing is too, even if women are told about conceiving being easier earlier - that’s exactly it - it’s easier. Women in their 30s who are fertile (and their partner too) will conceive but it will take longer. Many of the couples who are struggling to get pregnant in their 30s would have struggled in their 20s too if things like PCOS, endrometriosis or sperm count problems come into play. Assuming that fertility treatment is primarily used because of age is a myth. It’s just wrong.

And the way things stand at the moment, with the NHS, couples who do have the sort of problems I’ve mentioned above usually have fuck all chance of getting them investigated and diagnosed by the NHS in their 20s, let alone have fertility treatment. NHS GPs are notorious for refusing to investigate fertility issues until well into their 30s. Because they are university educated professionals who see the 30s as the ‘right’ time to have babies when their friends and family and social circle do, they can be extremely dismissive of people who they don’t think are conforming to the ‘right’ thing.

It’s not just sex Ed that is stacked against women when it comes to controlling our fertility.

Sperm can live for about 5 days max winterfell, and the ones that are likely to live that long are the ones that are likely to fertilise an egg because they are strongest. And they don’t live ‘in the fanjo’ (ahem) conception takes place in the Fallopian tubes, which is why some pregnancies are ectopic.

Another thing is, if they weren't planning it, then why do they keep it? Funny how these women who accidentally get caught, almost ALWAYS keep the baby.

I got pregnant accidentally with ds3- I was on the Pill. I continued the pregnancy. It genuinely was an accident. Why did I continue the pregnancy? Because as soon as I knew he was there, I wanted him. I am 100% pro choice. I have had a termination in the past. It was not my choice to terminate this time.

WinterfellWench, perhaps worth checking your own facts? Here for example is some information from the FPA: www.fpa.org.uk/contraceptive-awareness-week/conceivable-unplanned-pregnancies-over-35s

Looking at the abortion statistics – the most obvious and reliable illustration of unplanned pregnancy – you’d expect the rate of abortion to be very low in the over 35 age group. However, in 2008, women aged 40–44 years old had the same rate of abortion as women under the age of 16. And almost 20,000 women aged 35–39 had an abortion.d

Thanks for all of the replies everyone.
I am definitely not saying that we should teach teenage girls that it's really difficult to fall pregnant.
Perhaps I did not express myself very well in my first post, but I just feel that a lot of my generation (and perhaps @PlatypusPie the younger generation are a little more clued up) were given a rather unrealistic view of things.
Maybe this is part of a wider issue for me - what Michelle Obama recently spoke about with the fallacy of 'lean in' - the idea that you can have it all when you want it. 20% of women in their 40s in the UK do not have children, the highest it's ever been. I'm sure for many that was a choice. However for some it might not have been.
I'm not sure I'm explaining myself properly...am currently 9 months pregnant and awaiting baby to arrive so plenty of time to think about things but perhaps am not able to express them as coherently as usual!

Its the it won't happen to me rule.

The message for kids has to stay as is. Kids think they are invincible and it won't happen to them esp if you tell them there is a chance it won't happen or the odds are low.

Just exactly the same as the ladies in their 20s and 30s who require IVF, oh I won't need that, it won't happen to me!

Your not telling me in your 20's or 30's you didn't know IVF existed or that people actually needed and used it. What makes you think it won't happen to be you?

I think the advice for teenagers is appropriate, its more of a message for women in their 20s and 30s - basically, crack on if you want a chance of babies, you've got a window to do it and it's likely to be over in 15/20 years. Maybe something to be communicated when going for smears etc.

I agree I carried the lingering preconception from adolescence (no pun intended) that kissing a boy would get me pregnant, and was surprised and worried at 30 that it took a year to get pregnant. I still had time fortunately but I so easily could have pottered along for another decade and things might have been much harder.

Surely encouraging teenagers to "double up" on their contraception methods is so that both parties are taking personal responsibility from their very first sexual experiences, as well as for pregnancy prevention? If doubling up is the norm, hopefully fewer boys/men would whinge about having to use condoms.

*So, do you think that really girls at school should be taught that actually there will only be 1-2 days a month that you can get pregnant, and that it might actually not be that easy?

Am fully prepared to be shot down in flames and called un-feminist etc...*

I completely agree. I left school in the late 90's. We were basically taught that any unprotected sex whatsoever would result in pregnancy. And that condoms break so you need the pill/injection too.

Our sex ed didn't cover periods or fertility. All we did on periods was the talk at the end of primary school and then touched on it at secondary in sex ed/biology.

I had no idea about tracking changes in my cycle. I had no idea about CM. I had no idea about fertile days. I was on the injection from the age of 14 (bad periods and it stopped them) until the age of 35.

I thought you could get pregnant at any time of the month until a couple of years ago when we started TTC.

I think it's interesting @AnchorDownDeepBreath that your company offered egg freezing when you were in your twenties.
There is a lot of evidence to suggest that egg freezing hardly ever works. Instead it lulls young women into a false sense of security.
That suits the company doesn't it - fewer women taking maternity leave in their early thirties - but it doesn't suit women.

@WinterfellWench

"Over the last 10 years abortion rates have been decreasing for omen
aged under 25, particularly for women aged under 20. Abortion rates have been increasing for women aged 30 and over."
"...rates for women aged 35 and over have also increased from 6.9
per 1,000 women in 2007 to 8.5 per 1,000 women in 2017".
" In particular the abortion rate in the 16-17 age group declined from a peak of 23.4 per 1,000 women in 2007, to 10.2 per 1,000 women in 2017."Source

"Sperm can live for up to 7 days inside a woman's body."
Source.

And secondly no... I don’t see how it can be a surprise in this day and age that your fertility declines as you get older and if you want to understand your cycle and your odds and all of that, the info is so readily available. It’s not a secret.

But how do you know what you don't know? If taught the school line, you will think that's all correct and won't know its wrong and that you need to go and find out about the realities as you won't know that what you have been taught is wrong.

Does that make sense?

I would much rather teenagers were scared about the risk rather than told it might be hard to get pregnant!

Adult women who want to get pregnant can educate themselves about it when they get to that point.

It’s not true over 40s have the most abortions.

Abortions start to be recorded at very low levels around age 14 but rise very sharply after age 16 peaking at 19 then it slowly tails off.

40 year olds have the most abortions of their age group, but it’s only comparable to the rate of girls who’ve just turned 16, before the sharp spike upwards.

Wouldn't it be also a good idea to teach girls about how their bodies and fertility can be adversely affected by other factors eg STIs and obesity?

I don’t see how it can be a surprise in this day and age that your fertility declines as you get older and if you want to understand your cycle and your odds and all of that, the info is so readily available. It’s not a secret.

But if you are a teenage girl you do have to seek it out. It’s very easy for us as 30/40 something women to say ‘everyone knows, it’s not a secret’, but we know because we’ve been through that part of our lives where it has been relevant. Yes, most of the women on here are going to be part of the age group of women who know that. But do women in their early to mid 20s know it? I’m not sure they do.

I think understanding the menstrual and ovulation cycle is important. Not just for contraception/conception, but because girls should learn how their body works and what to expect of it.

I don't think omitting it helps anyone.

Including the cycle in Sex Ed, as well as just for those who choose Biology as a subject, doesn't have to mean telling girls that 3 weeks a month they are "safe". There's a whole lot of nuance there.

Good point, Archbishop - I forgot that Biology is an option in most schools (wasn't in mine!)

I think it’s really important that teens think it’s really easy to fall pregnant. It is far from ideal for teens to be having babies (I know there are lots of mums on here who have done well with their lives after having a baby as a teen, but I suspect there are far more who have struggled through life because of having a baby when they ere so young).
As an adult, we are all capable of googling things and reading up on conception rates for our age group and I really don’t think it’s a secret that women’s fertility falls as we get older.
I do think it’s important that teenagers are taught about their bodies and how their cycles work, but I don’t think stepping away from the ‘it’s really easy to get pregnant’ message is the way forward.

We should definitely be teaching girls how their bodies and fertility actually work, not that they’re a ticking time-bomb where if you have sex under 18 you’ll definitely definitely get pregnant but if you leave it until after 30 to ttc then you definitely won’t because now you’ve left it too late, you short-sighted career woman you.

Can’t rely on schools exclusively for that though. One secondary school class on the menstrual cycle isn’t going to instantly cancel out all the other messages they’re hearing from everyone and everything around them.

YABU. Your experience sounds atypical - it sounds like your sex education teacher was astonishingly bad! I can't believe they taught you that IVF works 100% of the time, and that you can get pregnant from oral sex. Your teacher was the problem.

As others have said, it's no secret that women's fertility declines with age. I was definitely already aware of that as a teenager, even though I didn't learn it in school.

Most people who are struggling to conceive are not 15. It can be spectacularly easy at this age, and no not for just 1 or 2 days a month.