To think he should NEVER be released - HORRIFIC STORY WARNING ***warning reiterated by MNHQ - disturbing content***

[ShockedandOutraged]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6457161/Hes-bad-Ian-Brady.html#article-6457161

After committing a crime like this, it can never be guaranteed that this man is not a risk to society. What parameters do the Parole Board use to determine this? He has not been around to lose his temper/in a position to kill children while inside.

The reports details a network of 'friends' that this fiend has as support when he's out. Who on earth could be friends with something like this?

How can he even want to be released? If he had any remorse he'd have killed himself before now.

The poor parents of these children. Is there anyway they can fight against this?

Oh MattFreis stop virtue signalling. In this case who gives a single shit if there is a 'baying mob'?

I'm totally against the death penalty and am usually a bit at the lynch mob types. However, given what this man has done, I can't bring myself to bring a single fuck about anything bad that may come to him.

You seem a lot more concerned about calling people out on this thread than you do about whether this man will be released. Quite a lot of time you spent there collecting quotes.

He looks so non descript. Like any man in the high st, not distinctive in anyway

I'd worry about lookalikes being attacked

He should remain locked up

Reflectent Yes, fair enough, the thread has moved on (a bit). I actually am more curious about the detail of this particular case, though, and don't really understand how anyone can say the parole decision is wrong without knowing more about that. It doesn't really feel as though anyone is interested in that.

flamingo I'm not arguing as to his current status, I don't know any of the facts. I'm saying (in response to a pp's question) that it is certainly possible the parole board knows things that substantially affect (for the better) the level of risk he poses.

And vegemite, it only took me half a minute to collect the quotes. My computer has this amazing thing called 'select and paste'. A pp accused me of lying. I didn't care to let that comment stand unchallenged, if that's OK with you.

I don't understand this recourse to accusations of 'virtue signalling' just because someone disagrees with you. If you think my position is more virtuous than yours, why not try some of it? Or is it too much effort to actually think seriously about things?

Anyway, I'm out. I think this is probably just one of those angry ranty threads I shouldn't have wasted my time with. Hopefully someone reading who didn't want to disagree with the mob publicly has at least felt a bit heartened that not everyone has the same mentality.

matt maybe they do, but they only know of him what they see him like inside, the outside world is a very different place.

also, they say he poses a "lesser risk"

to me, that aint really good enough.

I would bet my last quid that they wouldn't want him anywhere near their children.

all "the mob" are saying is that he shouldn't be released. If you think he should be, that's up to you, but you're incredibly naïve to think that you shouldn't be challenged on that.

also, I have "seriously thought" about it, and my conclusion remains the same. He should be behind bars. There is no way they can know that he will not re offend, and even a 1% chance of him re offending is too high of a chance for me.

Or is it too much effort to actually think seriously about things?

yes, that’ll certainly win people over.

While I can’t speak for the entire ‘baying mob’, I would guess I’m not the only one in it who has indeed considered that mental illness may have played a role in this man’s crime. (Who wouldn’t?) However, if this had been established to be the causative factor for the crime here beyond doubt such that the parole board could make assumptions about further risk level based on that, I would expect to see:

• some (previous) change to his actual sentencing and custodial arrangements; you wouldn’t expect someone who killed during a psychotic break to be treated the same as someone who was fully culpable for their actions;

• some indication of that in what has been released re the board’s decision, rather than a statement that he has learned to control himself in stressful situations.

Matt

He did have psychiatric history. He was evaluated when he was discharged from the Navy. The findings of which have never been disclosed.

Totally agree, he pleaded guilty, trial lasted 8 minutes. There was probably no follow up to previous evaluation.

I imagine if the public were made more aware of the motivations, his treatment, his progress, the evidence the parole board based it’s decision on, there would still be little sympathy.

If he has a mental illness then he could be released from jail - into a different form of detention. I don't think mental illness gets you, literally, a get out of jail card for a crime of such magnitude.

We cannot understand why the parole board made their decision, no one can.

It seems general consensus is based purely on the facts we do have, the violence and sadistic nature of his crime against children.

I should imagine most of the public would assume he could not have been mentally healthy to commit such an act.

Even if the parole board did disclose mitigating circumstances, he was suffering from x, y, z, which he is now medicated for. He has undergone 45 years of intensive therapy etc. It’s the severity of the act which is prompting the public to call for him never to be released. As in similar cases like Brady, Hindley etc.

I don't understand this recourse to accusations of 'virtue signalling' just because someone disagrees with you. If you think my position is more virtuous than yours, why not try some of it? Or is it too much effort to actually think seriously about things?

Yep, you are oh so enlightened and civilsed and everyone else is an ignorant barbarian....

I don't consider myself a part of a mob. I've read what information is available and still don't think he should be released. I've said I'm not convinced by an assessment of "less likely".

There's also the issue that having been in prison for so long, he'll fund it hard and yes, stressful, living outside. Has this been taken into account? It seems a common enough effect that long term prisoners have issue adjusting to their new life.

@MattFreisCheekyDimples I’m working now so don’t have time to reply properly but wanted to thank you coming back to me on my post. Your response did make me reflect so thank you for taking the time.

I might be wrong but it seems you feel that a legitimate reason for a parole board to action release is to do with future risk assessment- If the risk was no longer there then perhaps the person could re-enter society. I am guessing (and I fully accept I might be wrong) that you believe in the notion of rehabilition and see that as the ultimate purpose of the jail system.

I think the issue is that most people don’t care about future risk, they don’t care for rehabilitation or believe in it. Or they do for certain crimes but not for ones of this severity. They believe he should stay inside forever as penance for what he did. I also don’t think people care about whether the crime was a manifestation of a psychotic episode - most people will see that level of evil and believe that you can’t separate the person and the ‘psychosis/illness’. They are their illness, so to speak.

But the law does recognise mental illness now and I know times have changed in terms of our understanding of how it manifests.
Perhaps there is some information they have that means the parole board could reach such a decision - the parole board have to follow precedence and procedure. It doesn’t mean that for lots of people it will still seem to be the wrong decision.

I like to think of myself as progressive but when confronted with this sort of crime I really struggle and don’t see how a person deserves to ever re-enter society. I don’t think this makes me part of a mob or of a mob-like mentality though.

I also don’t think people care about whether the crime was a manifestation of a psychotic episode - most people will see that level of evil and believe that you can’t separate the person and the ‘psychosis/illness’. They are their illness, so to speak

its not that I don't "care" that it might have been a manifestation of a psychotic episode, its not that I cant separate the person from the illness. Its that you cant click your fingers and take mental illness away. You cant assume someone is better because they are calm when on meds. You cant assume someone will continue to take those meds properly. Most will because they want to get better, but most people with mental illness don't kill children as a result of it either.

If he does have a psychiatric condition that requires treatment, but also makes him a danger to society, then he should be locked up, maybe not in prison, but somewhere that he can be told to take his meds like he is in prison, and somewhere he cannot harm anyone or himself.

its difficult, because lots of people suffer with mental illness in different ways. It wouldn't be right to say that mental illness played absolutely no part in what he did, because clearly it did, but also, as a PP said, it makes me somewhat uncomfortable that it seemingly can be used as a literal get of jail free card.

Am I really the only person here who is curious to understand the parole decision rather than just wanting to denounce it from a position of complete ignorance?

I would be very interested in this and how parole hearings work. We are all so familiar with court hearings - at least from tv dramas (!) - but parole hearings seem an unpublished and undramatised mystery...

He doesn’t have any form of illness that involves psychosis. He didn’t use that as mitigation for the event, he just said he was drunk and stressed. He wasn’t diagnosed with that sort of illness while in prison, because lifers with that sort of illness are always transferred to high security hospitals (inc Peter Sutcliffe), recovery from a psychotic illness isn’t detailed as part of the parole boards decision to release, which it certainly would be if he’d had it and recovered, if he hadn’t been recovered he wouldn’t be released.

It amazes me the convoluted ‘what ifs’ people will go through just to insist this man is a victim.

I find my kids highly stressful at times and have dealt with that in very little sleep for weeks in end

I haven’t impailed them in a fence yet

This guy should rot in hell and the parole Board must be made up of gullible idiots to think he will change

The MoJ issues Parole Board guidance for practitioners.

I have name changed for privacy but have been a Mumsnetter since 2010 e.g Sharon T-Rexing, Bridezilla On Glue/Cancel The Cheque, Maui, Helium Balloons Are Wrong etc.

I have Bipolar Disorder (for over 25 years ) & unfortunately have had several psychotic breaks, different medications, in patient & out patient treatment.
As Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow said previously I find my kids highly stressful at times and have dealt with that in very little sleep for weeks in end

I haven’t impailed them in a fence yet
This also applies to me.
I am not a danger to society as I have & am very likely to hurt myself when experiencing a psychotic break.
I also manage to work albeit part time. My job can be stressful at times but I love it & the people I work with.
I have friends & family who love me & watch my back. (& put up with me warts & all)
I have heard voices/had delusional thoughts/smells/feelings.
I have never wanted or tried to kill anyone.
Perhaps I am lucky as always a tiny percent of me can just about stay in reality when seriously ill. It's called insight by my mental health team.

I am not or have never been a danger to society.
Can the Parole Board guarantee/prove David McGreavy has insight & will not reoffend?

@MusicalMeg

there's nothing to say there are any medical issues with the offender anyway. Absolutely nothing like that was offered in his defence at the time. As he has never been moved to a medical facility, I am guessing it was never a factor.

btw am I the only person wondering - if he was living in their house, might he have actually planned the whole thing in advance? It certainly features a range of methods etc and the showing off of the bodies on the railings...it doesn't look like the result of a "moment of madness" much as I hate the phrase.

@Grace212
Yes you're right, there is nothing to say there are any medical issues unless it says so in the closed psychiatric evaluation from when McGreavy was discharged from the navy (the arson incident)

I was just giving my example in case there are psychiatric/medical issues.
Which we the general public don't know about.

I think there is also a difference between sentencing and parole boards.

There seem to be 2 seperate issues. He was sentenced to life and a minimum of 20 years before being eligible for parole. He has served 45 years.

Parole boards do not deal with the length of sentence.

It seems most of us are questioning the length of his sentence.

Ian Huntley was sentenced to 2 life sentences, with a minimum of 40 years before being eligible for parole.

This case has flown under the radar, as there was not much media coverage of the trial. Due to it lasting 8 minutes.

Maybe they have to release him because he has shown he no longer presents the risk the judge found him guilty of. By risk, I mean how much info was gathered about him in an 8 minute trial.

What courses etc has he been taking in prison to help him change? For example taking cooking classes and improving on your cooking skills, wouldn’t be a problem, if there was nothing wrong with your cooking skills in the first place!

Why are we even debating it? Who in their own right minds would want this "man" out of prison? no no no. He murdered and mutilated 3 small children. I don't care if he had any mental illness whatsoever.

Surely if he was ill and had recovered he would be so devastated by his sadism he'd want to die.

It seems most of us are questioning the length of his sentence

I'd say it seems most of us are questioning our own sanity if society thinks this man should be out on the streets. Its not the length of his sentence. Its the affront to humanity that he should be allowed any freedom at all. It is a crime beyond comprehension.

btw am I the only person wondering - if he was living in their house, might he have actually planned the whole thing in advance?

No you’re not. I do to. I will look now for the report but I read earlier that the mother had attended A&E that morning with the baby with bruising and a report labelled “battered baby” was made. Also the fact he was drunk but somehow remembered there were spiked railings outside in a neighbours garden. Almost like he had made a mental note of them being there prior to the murders.

Dishing I thought that’s what I said! He should have been sentenced to whole life, no possibility of parole!

Thanks, icannotremember - I’ll take a look at yMOJ info.

It also includes a guide for victims, as well as for prisoners, and practitioners