Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wish the extra funding for grammar schools was £500 million rather than £50 million.

254 replies

letstalk2000 · 03/12/2018 21:43

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/government-gives-16-grammar-schools-in-england-a-share-of-£50m-funding-pot-to-expand/ar-BBQqmk6

Instead of just 16 grammar schools sharing the pot of £50 million . It should be the full 164 of grammar schools hence the £500 million requirement.

Grammar schools as the flagships of the state education sector should have all the resources they require . In order to ensure a world class education is available to those that can make use of one.

I am not stupid and realise to make statements like this on here puts me on par with Nigel Farage or Katie Hopkins in the hearts and minds of the cohort which inhabits this parish !
However, I have a belief that if you have limited resources available you should make sure what you have got does not get wasted; i.e. put it in to areas such as selective education.

After all there are only about 220 good secondary schools in England with 164 of them being grammar schools. The other 56 being de facto grammar schools despite posing as comprehensives. This proves you cant be successful if you are all things to all people !

OP posts:
wafflyversatile · 04/12/2018 23:17

And fuck using raxes paid by workers who send their children to comps to fund increasing inequality via grammar schools.

BeanBagLady · 04/12/2018 23:28

So many problems with GS.

And there is nothing that a Grammar school can do that a good top set in a good comp can’t do.

So just ensure that comps are fully funded.

Result: no child ends up in the wrong school because they didn’t
Make it on tne day, or missed out by one mark. Result: no contortion or shenanigans needed eliminate tutoring or poverty factors and enable a more representative intake.
Result: results stay the same, as demonstrated by comparing overall outcomes in a full Grammar County (Kent) with a similiar no -Grammar county.

Tw1nsetAndPearls · 04/12/2018 23:32

Grammar schools as the flagships of the state education sector should have all the resources they require

Really not sure why they are the flagships of state education. They take mainly middle class children already succeeding in schools - many of whom are coached and then continue them on the same path. In my view they are the easy riders of the state education sector

Tw1nsetAndPearls · 04/12/2018 23:33

I am always struck by the chorus of derision about grammar schools from the very people who benefitted from them.
*
Considering that only 4.8% of the population were educated by grammar schools and about 12% selectively if independent schools are included; it is quite telling on here that at least 50% of posters had the benefit of selective educations....*

I chose not to send my child to a grammar school. I also choose not to work in one

Tw1nsetAndPearls · 04/12/2018 23:36

The Grammar I work at has plenty of children from all sorts of backgrounds and those children deserve the same money per head as children at non-selective schools

It must be a very unusual grammar school- the statistics say that is not the general picture of grammar schools

Original poster
letstalk2000 · 04/12/2018 23:44

The third quote was not mine...

OP posts:
ghostsandghoulies · 04/12/2018 23:47

I am always struck by the chorus of derision about grammar schools from the very people who benefitted from them.

Most kids don't have a say in where they are educated and will know from experience why the grammar school system is unfair. For example they might have known a hard working and intelligent child at primary school (ie grammar material) who didn't pass the 11+ because they didn't have parents who paid for tutoring for the exam. (You can be bright but need exam technique help to compete against other tutored kids)

NaughtToThreeSadOnions · 05/12/2018 03:21

Finally I have a first in Politics from an R.G University gained in 1993

Wow do you really i find it hard to believe any one with a third level education of any type would write this sentence

Nobody alive had anything to do with the British Empire fucking about countries

But you did OP, is not a basic understanding of political history the conquences of it part of your political degree?

Not sure what the subject of your dissitation has to do with your knowledge of foregin relations/aid/commonwealth affairs.

NaughtToThreeSadOnions · 05/12/2018 03:31

Ah i see the confusion over the 'i work in a grammar school'

OP because you didn't put quote marks or bold Christinas bit you were quoting, it does look like you were saying YOU worked in s grammar school which is why people assumed you worked in one.

Your lack of political social historical effects of foregin affairs is still baffling though

To wish the extra funding for grammar schools was £500 million rather than £50 million.
To wish the extra funding for grammar schools was £500 million rather than £50 million.
Piggywaspushed · 05/12/2018 06:52

You did a dissertation on Hillsborough (very admirable in itself) and you can't spell it????!!

Sorry, don't normally point stuff like that out but if you feel the need to showboat, you have to get those things right. You seem to suggest your dissertation on miners and the policing of football is somehow a relevant expertise for opining about education. Maybe I am missing something.

BeanBagLady · 05/12/2018 07:46

“* I am always struck by the chorus of derision about grammar schools from the very people who benefitted from them. “

I went to a selective school. I recognised as soo as I went to Uni that I had led a blinkered naive life. I saw that my peers from comprehensives were as bright as me and actually more adaptable, and less conformist, so more innovative and challenging in their thinking. I felt staid and meek until I got used to challenging verything I thought I knew.

My Dc in a comprehensive school get as good an education as I did and are flying.

GrammarTeacher · 05/12/2018 08:05

Teaching at a grammar school is not an easy ride. The students are still teenagers. Often with a LOT of pressure being put on them from home and themselves. A lot of time is spent of pastoral care. Contrary to common belief we do have an SEN department. I find it a little offensive that some people assume that people with SEN couldn't pass the entrance exam.
I went to a grammar school. I didn't feel inadequate compared to my friends from comps when I got to uni. Nor the friends from the independent sector.
People are falling into the us and them trap that has been set for us. ALL schools need better funding.
As I mentioned my school is not one of those getting extra funding for expansion. Throwing money at a few schools solves none of our problems. I'd rather we all had enough funds to cover all the new resources we need at the moment but there we go.

hazeyjane · 05/12/2018 08:14

Contrary to common belief we do have an SEN department. I find it a little offensive that some people assume that people with SEN couldn't pass the entrance exam.

Of course there are children with SEN who can pass an entrance exam....but I think it is fairly criminal that there are swathes of children with complex needs who are expected to cope in mainstream because of the lack of breadth in specialist provision.

Yes all schools deserve decent funding, but when there is so little to spread around and so many cuts are being made to vital services, I think the area of SN provision needs it more.

GrammarTeacher · 05/12/2018 08:27

I agree with you. I'm not arguing in favour of this money for grammar school expansion. It's a cynical ploy. It will please voters in those areas ((certainly in the ones nearest me) and it gets teachers fighting amongst themselves and distracted from the current union campaigns about funding.
SN provision is shocking. I think most councils are breaking the law on this one.
To really help all schools I would like to see better SN provision throughout the system, more EAL support, a root and branch reform of and more funding for CAMHS.

DadJoke · 05/12/2018 09:05

If grammar schools were restricted to students entitled to free school meals there might be a case for them. When you adjust for the intake, they are no better and sometimes worse than comprehensive schools. They do the exact opposite of what they were intended to do.

BorisBogtrotter · 05/12/2018 09:08

The Russell Group didn't exist till'94 so whilst it might be an RG university now it certainly wasn't when you went there.

I find it hard to believe that someone who in the face of evidence from numerous well respected sources ( including RG universities) spouted "Lies, damned lies and statistics" and thought it was a reasonable attempt at rebuttal.

"I find it a little offensive that some people assume that people with SEN couldn't pass the entrance exam."

Strawman, no one suggested that, what they have said is that the data shows that SEN students are significantly underrepresented grammar schools in comparison with comprehensives.

Original poster
letstalk2000 · 05/12/2018 09:12

The posters who have turned in to a pack of hysterical hyenas against me, have missed the most important point I made ; a 'clue' it relates to the process of democracy i.e. not to be chased around 'salem' placed in front of the star chamber for a show trial.

If you can't figure out what I am on about, you really should not be questioning me.

J.S Mill p.63, (1974) [1859] ' There needs to be protection from the tyranny of the prevailing opinion'.

OP posts:
GrammarTeacher · 05/12/2018 09:13

Boris - not on this thread. On many many others though.

BorisBogtrotter · 05/12/2018 09:17

How is that relevant to the point?

RG education my arse.

GrammarTeacher · 05/12/2018 09:21

I have never said I had an RG education.

Original poster
letstalk2000 · 05/12/2018 09:22

Whether the term Russel Group Universities existed in 1993 is not important ! I was/am under attack from a group of very 'hungry' carnivores, looking to indulge their animal instinct to kill prey !

OP posts:
BorisBogtrotter · 05/12/2018 09:23

Also you are claiming that posters are "hysterical", not at all. Your points about "good schools", the outcomes achieved by Grammar schools, their intake, and your desire to increase funding for them have been rebutted with reference to specific evidence, by a range of respected institutions, which show your opinions to be incorrect.

Its been very academic actually.

Original poster
letstalk2000 · 05/12/2018 09:25

There seems to be a bit of cross wiring going on here ….

OP posts:
BorisBogtrotter · 05/12/2018 09:26

Well it is important because you can't claim to have gone to an RG university when the RG didn't exist when you went. The prestige of many RG universities ( and those that joined at a later date) has increased since the time you went there, as have the admissions tariffs, its no mark of quality to claim it retrospectively. You used it as an appeal to authority too, which demonstrates a fallacious argument.

No one is attacking you they are rebutting your arguments, which are flawed and based mainly on your own opinions and confirmation bias.

GrammarTeacher · 05/12/2018 09:30

I think Boris thinks we're the same person. We're not. I don't even agree with you that the school I teach in is more worthy of funding than the other schools in our town. All schools need more funding.