To wish the extra funding for grammar schools was £500 million rather than £50 million.

[letstalk2000]

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/government-gives-16-grammar-schools-in-england-a-share-of-£50m-funding-pot-to-expand/ar-BBQqmk6

Instead of just 16 grammar schools sharing the pot of £50 million . It should be the full 164 of grammar schools hence the £500 million requirement.

Grammar schools as the flagships of the state education sector should have all the resources they require . In order to ensure a world class education is available to those that can make use of one.

I am not stupid and realise to make statements like this on here puts me on par with Nigel Farage or Katie Hopkins in the hearts and minds of the cohort which inhabits this parish !
However, I have a belief that if you have limited resources available you should make sure what you have got does not get wasted; i.e. put it in to areas such as selective education.

After all there are only about 220 good secondary schools in England with 164 of them being grammar schools. The other 56 being de facto grammar schools despite posing as comprehensives. This proves you cant be successful if you are all things to all people !

Mill also understands the need to be able to propose or initiate, controversial opinions , thus without the full force of the indoctrinated masses propelled on those who seek to question the status quo !

I don't think you are the same person, just was saying that your point about people saying grammar schools don't have SEN was incorrect for this thread.

"the need to be able to propose or initiate, controversial opinions , thus without the full force of the indoctrinated masses propelled on those who seek to question the status quo !"

But its not really a controversial opinion or one which challenges the status quo.

The basis of your opinion has been shown by significant levels of academic research to be incorrect.

You are not stimulating debate by challenging a status quo because you simply are repeating your opinions, nor are you challenging anything because you don't present any evidence for your arguments.

"Teaching at a grammar school is not an easy ride. The students are still teenagers. Often with a LOT of pressure being put on them from home and themselves. A lot of time is spent of pastoral care. "

I would agree with this.

Also things that people who send their darling children to grammars don't want to hear.

The affluent children at grammar schools have a higher propensity to get involved with hard drugs than kids at your average comp, mainly because they have higher incomes.

Behavior problems often stem from children believing they are something special because they have passed an exam, and of course the affluence factor. Comments regarding teacher salaries by older, arrogant, children are not uncommon.

Bullying is rife, and often goes undetected, and unreported.

On top of all this your kids do no better than they would do in a normal good comp, which your local comp would be if the top kids didn't get creamed off to the grammar.

One of the reasons I’m glad DD chose the grammar was because of the amazing attitude towards pastoral care.

On top of all this your kids do no better than they would do in a normal good comp, which your local comp would be if the top kids didn't get creamed off to the grammar

We didn’t look around the grammar because of how she would do academically. It was because of the access to subjects she was interested in and the fact it was single sex.

To be honest my first thought on picking a school was “where will you be happy”.

“After all there are only about 220 good secondary schools in England with 164 of them being grammar schools. The other 56 being de facto grammar schools despite posing as comprehensives. This proves you cant be successful if you are all things to all people “

What utter bollocks.

"This proves you cant be successful if you are all things to all people “

Yet children who go to grammar schools perform no better than children of the same ability who go to one of the 70% or so of UK secondary schools that are regarded as good or outstanding.

No evidence for your points.

Boris - the school I teach in has an excellent value added score.
I wouldn't say bullying is rife, nor would I say it doesn't exist that would be foolish! I do know that myself and my colleagues put a lot more effort into pastoral care of our students than was the case when I went to grammar in the 90s (with a couple of notable exceptions).
That said, I don't think grammars are a cure all or the best place for all students. I also think the lack of movement in the school system isn't helpful. I have two children. If they seem likely to be able enough I will do practice papers with them and let them choose where they go. We're a good few years away from the decision but I would be more than happy with the alternatives.
However, back to the point:
More money for ALL schools for the things we need!

"More money for ALL schools for the things we need!"

Agreed.

I think all schools have improved since the 1990s in almost every way as well.

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Well Stephanie I would not be telling anyone, you surely don't want any one else reducing your cake !

I think its a misconception that all grammar schools have amazing facilities. Some do. Some don't. A local grammar school near us is one of those schools which received funding - it absolutely needs it. It's facilities are dire. There isn't any heating in some classrooms. Coincidentally, 5 minutes down the road is a local comprehensive which has facilities that would rival a private school. New buildings, new gym, new astro turf etc etc.
However, a further 10 minutes down the road is another comprehensive whose facilities are even more sadder than the grammar school's. This comprehensive is our catchment school. Both my children passed the 11 plus and go to grammar schools. They were the lucky ones. But it shouldn't have to be that way - all children should have access to a good education. The government should make sure all schools have good facilities and teaching.
And by the way - I'm not getting the whole grammar schools don't cater for SEN needs thing. Both my children have SEN needs and one of their grammar schools in particular has been amazing.

Boris - glad we agree on the main fight then. But yes, much has changed since the 1990s don't think they had the first idea on what to do with a self-harmed in those days!

BorisBogtrotter

The facts show that students in grammar schools do no better than they do in good schools and 76% of secondaries are good or outstanding

Your link to the Sutton Trust and the Gaps in Grammar report doesn't say that though;

^It concludes by comparing performance between highly able students at grammar schools and top comprehensives

Comparing the performance of pupils at grammar schools with highly able pupils at top comprehensives is not the same as comparing them with highly able pupils at good comprehensives.

Colyton Grammar School's Progress 8 is + 1.00 (well above average) for 2018 - they have been named as the highest achieving co-ed state school in the country. The 2017 figures must be based on IGCSEs or something similar as their entries for English and Maths were 0% and 1% last year.

'And by the way - I'm not getting the whole grammar schools don't cater for SEN needs thing. '
No-one has suggested this. All schools have a SENCO - it's a legal requirement. What has been stated is that government data shows that grammar schools have very low numbers of pupils with an EHCP. Some posters have suggested that grammar schools have higher than average numbers of pupils with SEN without an EHCP. This is harder to fact check - but if it was the case then you would expect grammar schools to have higher than average numbers of exclusions based on government data.

Whether the term Russel Group Universities existed in 1993 is not important ! I was/am under attack from a group of very 'hungry' carnivores, looking to indulge their animal instinct to kill*
No your making staements that you can only back up with lies damn lies and statistics.

And to be honest i'm not a hynea, i'm j7st pretty offended by your comnent no one is alive had anything to do with what the british empire did, you havent retracted it apolgised for it. Instead you've banged on about your RG degree in politcs yet you think your statement was justified.

You think yoj can maje up for your statement by virtue signalling about hillisborough and the miners strike

Some posters have suggested that grammar schools have higher than average numbers of pupils with SEN without an EHCP. This is harder to fact check

Some grammar schools have SEND Information Reports (2nd from bottom)
www.ags.bucks.sch.uk/policies/

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So if you would prefer in cases scarce resources were given to 'despots. Thus enabling the construction of Palaces and for their Cronies to procure armour plated Mercedes G Wagon Jeeps .

We should also have a reserve fund built up in order we can act instantly to humanitarian crisis .

With regards to the 'British Empire ' Should we hold our children and grandchildren responsible for what happened 3 or 4 generations previously. Should they be made to do penance for the actions of the 'East India Company'. There is a time for society to move on and as pointed out by Edmund Burke 'to not repeat the mistakes of the past'

Oh wow someone has learned to find sources on google, yet doesn't present a narrative or an opposing point.

Clavinova, the actual report cited, not summary, stated:

"The Sutton Trust report emphasised that, while the research showed pupils in grammars making substantially more progress than other types of schools, these children were already making greater progress during their primary years, casting doubt on whether the
grammar school was having an effect, or whether there is just something different about the pupils who attend them"

and a "Top comprehensive" would be one that was good or outstanding.

Further more the evidence from the latest studies ( from Durham, KCL and several other institutions) shows that when you take into account students privilege and ability. In fact it shows to quote the Durham author: "No clear imporvement in overall results " for either the students at grammar schools or not.

Don't spend any more money on them.

Hmmm the normal hypocrisy and inaccuracies cropping up on yet another grammar thread.

Kids with PP, esl and SEN do get places, saying they don’t stops many from even trying.

The school funding issue across the board is hugely unfair and many are happy with that when their children benefit. My dc go to grammars in an area that has historically had 70% funding than other areas. They are in an area with low aspiration and lower wages. They are also in area with higher numbers of children who are taught out of the system. The council are struggling to fund said children and are now planning on giving several schools (selective and non selective )less money than the minimum recommendations under the FairerFunding Formula. Our grammars are already struggling.

One of our grammars has double the pp kids that Colyton has and probably several comps ( still not enough but they are working at it). They have more Sen and esl kids than Colyton too albeit still lower than other schools. Said school has excellent progress figures and was recently awarded the Times SW school of the year. There is no bullying and their pastoral care is superb.

Quite frankly I’m livid that our school loses its library, struggles to provide books, is hugely underfunded and performs very well on so much less is getting zilch whilst Colyton gets even more.

I think Fairer Funding should be sorted to mean just that before any school ( grammar or otherwise) gets more.

It stinks and I’m fed up with the Tory severe ineptitude in funding education full stop.

With regards to the 'British Empire ' Should we hold our children and grandchildren responsible for what happened 3 or 4 generations previously

No but we should hope our grandchildren and great grandchildren should be aware of our past and mistakes and not make stupid comments like you did op.

As i said in my very first reply to you no one alive was involved in world war one and there arent many alive that were involvee in world war two hay maybe germany should elect a right wing leader and lead them in to war agaon hay!

Thst seems your philospophy

Also as i pointed out in that post theres a good deal of people still alive in the conolisation and vontinuing conolisation of northern ireland.

I must apologize for (fibbing) aggrandizing my achievements : I got a 2:1 at University at not a first .

I was also a child with SEN at grammar school though undiagnosed (obvious) until about 4 years ago by a Clinical Psychologist .

"One of our grammars has double the pp kids that Colyton has"

Which means that because the 3% is an average, many grammar schools will have significantly lower numbers than that 3 %. No one said PP and SEN kids didn't get places, just that they were significantly under represented, even in areas where children with these designations are a significant proportion of the school age population.