To say its not a disease its a habit which started with choice. Alcoholism

[TreeFu]

My mother is a prolific binge drinker much to the detriment of myself and others around her, she has accepted she has a problem with drink but cannot be bothered to do anything to change her habits.

She can and does go for periods of time without touching one drop of alcohol, this is when she has no money to access it. During those periods she is just fine without it but as soon as she has access to money, she will binge until it runs out.

AIBU to believe this has nothing to do with disease and is down to her being weak willed, selfish and enjoying booze more than she cares about the wellbeing of those around her.

It's a crippling illness (I'm purposely not calling it a disease) and I feel desperately sorry for anyone suffering from it. Including people affected by it.

YANBU OP I can see where you're coming from. Also a child of an alcoholic, there are lots of us
I think it's easier to find the sympathy once they have died. It can be so hard to be sympathetic when you see a loved one destroying themselves in this way, with no concern for how it affects their loved ones. It is very selfish.
I don't doubt it's an illness, but to my mind it's like a branch of mental illness. The problem with saying 'disease' is that it absolves alcoholics of responsibility, when they already tend to be self pitying and irresponsible.
Like you I have massive respect for alcoholics who have quit.
btw It's not comparable to cancer at all imo because many people, in fact I think the majority, get cancer without 'lifestyle factors' contributing. it seems to me that there is some kind of blame model these days for cancer and no blame for alcoholics, whereas it ought to be the other way round if anything (not that blame is helpful anyway)

I've heard a bit about Al anon and I'm going to look into it some more. I agree I would benefit from counselling. I self referred for CBT which turned out to be 4 sessions of a CBT based workshop in a group setting and I didn't find that very helpful.

My Dbro knows she's got a drink problem but fortunately he hasn't been exposed to it yet. I'm ashamed on her behalf, but she's not. When we met last month for dinner she was laughing and joking about how she turns her phone off and makes herself uncontactable just so she can shut herself in her flat and enjoy a drink.

It enrages me that she finds any of what she's doing remotely funny, she's in her mid sixties and quite frankly is an embarrassment.

Alcoholics who are ashamed of their behaviour and seek help I can sympathise with and wish them all the luck in the world, my mother however is a damn disgrace of a woman in every sense of the word and finds her binge drinking hilarious so for her to try and allude to her actions being a disease is an insult to people with an actual disease.

I've become "the enemy" because I'm the only one who refuses to be complicit in her choices, she's got a relative who is forever throwing her money thus enabling the problem.

KonekoBasu yes I suppose that's true, I just find it very hard to understand maybe I need to stop being so black and white about it as you said it's not so straight forward and the lines are blurred.
STDG yes I think that's it once the problem is there it's too late.
I wish I could try and be a bit more empathetic but a big part of me wants to stamp my feet and say it's not fair which is utterly ridiculous.
Treefu my love I'm so sorry you are going through this I can totally understand and I've been through a lot of what you are now. My dad was in such a bad way in the end and the complete shite he used to spout when ever we tried to discuss his drinking was just ridiculous.
It's an awful thing to say but I was relieved when he died.

I agree OP. Same with overeating and smoking. They can all be addictive but they aren't diseases.

Op, you've every right to be angry here, and I don't consider it a disease and many medical professionals do not wish it to be referred as one, as it removes personal responsibility. And personal responsibility is what is required to work through this.

I've no advice for you, other than your anger is justified. They say we don't grow up until we can see our parents faults. You can see yours. You aren't being unreasonable and your anger is justified,

I think your statement is U. But I do sympathise with your experience and know it’s often hard to make sense of.

Half of my family are addicts, mostly alcoholics. They didn’t grow up with parents who were addicts but they had Aunts and Uncles who were addicts too. They drank or experimented with drugs because of the huge emotional void within them and/or emotional pain they just couldn’t cope with. Most of them have been diagnosed with personality disorders or another mental illness. It’s so prevalent within the family that I can’t help but see it as a disease that there is a genetic predisposition to within our family.

It is addiction which is a mental illness but not a disease. A disease is infectious imo and can strike anyone at any time. I agree op, "disease" just seems the wrong way to describe it.

Having read some of the thread ive yet to see one post pointing out how much alcholism costs the NHS

If OP had posted that her mum is a binge eater who weighs 20 stone i think the replies would be very different.

Youd have several posters fapping away while concern trolling.

Tree I think some people have been unnecessarily rude here. It’s not the same thing as a disease like cancer because there is an element of choice as well as the mental and physical addiction. You can’t change her, you need to look after yourself- try AlAnon. Good lucjk.

I struggle with this too.

My dad is an abusive alcoholic. He's dry now but not out of choice. However he was an abusive twat before he became an alcoholic (a fact my mother denies but I remember) alcohol doesn't change who a person is, merely disinhibits.

I do think there's an element of choice BUT there's also evidence of changes to brain chemistry In terms of cravings and with alcohol - which is a legal and socially acceptable drug - I do understand how the addiction can creep up on an addict. How it can start as normal social drinking and gradually become an addiction.

However I've also witnessed the other alcoholics in my family quit with a variety of methods (willpower, aa, church recovery group, holistic health group) and they acknowledged its both a disease AND a choice. The urges come from the disease but the refusal to give in to the urges a choice. They've all been more successful than dad in giving it up without being bitter & taking it out on others.

"I think some people are predisposed towards becoming addicts, so where most of us can enjoy drink regularly without becoming addicted, some people can’t, and they have no way of knowing this in advance" not necessarily true, almost all one side of my family are addicts, alcohol, drugs, gambling, exercise. I'm well aware as are my siblings & cousins that we come from a family of addicts and are most likely predisposed. As a result most of my generation are quite avoidant of likely addictions. I've never once tried a cigarette or street drug, I'm currently teetotal due to meds but I've always been a careful drinker, I don't drink if under stress or alone, and I've only been drunk twice my whole life.

"Is alcoholism different to other addictions such as drugs, then?" Yes & no imo.

Some substances are more chemically addictive than others, but then some are more available, some more socially acceptable. Cannabis & alcohol are more problematic imo than heroin or Coke because they're more widely available, more socially acceptable, cheaper. It annoys me when people say "cannabis isn't that bad" because I've seen what it can do.

However although heroin is less prevalent it's a bitch to kick and the methods of taking it more risky. I agree with George Michaels comments re HIV and drugs, speaking at a time when gay men were being blamed for the spread of HIV he argued gay men were more responsible than addicts, addicts didn't care about anything but getting their fix.

I agree, heroin addicts aren't careful about needle sharing and prostitutes who are also addicts (male and female) tend to be more willing to go bareback cos they get paid more for it. It's a perfect storm for spreading blood borne diseases like hepatitis, HIV and others.

"Does that make me an alcoholic or a binge drinker? Genuinely don't know." Imo & some experts in the field yes. It's not about just how much or when you drink, it's also whether you can control your intake, how you behave when drunk, your relationship with alcohol.

"I've supported this woman immensely. I've set up doctors appointments, railroaded her to AA meetings, cried begged and screamed, issued ultimatums. Everything I could have possibly done, I have done." But what have you done for YOU?

You can't make an addict stop.

3 c's

You didn't cause it
You can't control it
You can't cure it

Once you get that to sink in it does help a lot.

"You can’t compare overcoming cannabis use to alcohol addiction." Of course you can! Especially DAILY use! They're both addictive drugs, only difference one is legal and regulated the other isn't (in addiction terms) I'm guessing you're a cannabis taker?

Lack of visible withdrawal symptoms =/= not alcoholic either.

Shecamefromgreece - a book I found illustrated the denial of addiction really well is "Rachel's holiday", by Marian Keyes. The author is an alcoholic herself who also suffers from depression. The book is about a character who suffers from drug addiction and goes to a residential rehab place (somewhat under protest). There's a powerful scene when the characters denial is shattered and it really shakes her up.

There are too many of us (loved ones of alcoholics) it's a huge societal problem and I don't think anyone has the solution.

Keep getting support here, al anon, wherever helps. You don't owe her your efforts to hide it or manage it for her.

I seriously think you need to think about why you are expending so much energy lecturing her and covering her behaviour up. I think you are just hurting yourself more and more by continuing.
You say that she had a lovely upbringing but then you mention things that happened when you were a child. Are these the things she is trying to escape from by drinking? She sounds like she hasn't admitted to herself that she has a problem. The fact is that her addiction has robbed her of sense or maybe she never had any. You are banging your head against a brick wall and the only person getting hurt is you.
You want her to change. You will be disappointed. She won't unless she herself finds a reason to.
As others have said you need to contact Al-Anon. Get support for you. Explain to your brother what has been going on. Stop covering it up.
Consider going NC for your own sanity.

I'm so sorry, I understand that you want a mum. This must be incredibly hard and frustrating that she throws it all in your face. She is hurting you again and again and it must be truly awful.
This is where the alcoholics prayer really is apt
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

I'm an ACA, too.

It is shitty, OP. You're entitled to be furious. You're right, she is selfish and treated you badly & you deserved better. You aren't obliged to be nice to her or sympathetic. Being sympathetic doesn't help either of you.

Try not to be bitter, though. That won't help. Put her condition in a box of things you can't fix, whatever the cause. Does ACA have UK branches? Or Co-dependents anon. They are good support groups, too.

I read your OP earlier but only just had chance to reply, So sorry if I repeat anything.

It doesn't matter if it's a disease or not. What matters is how your mum's behaviour effects you. You have every right to be angry, hurt and upset. unfortunately you can not change her, you can not control her and the alcohol she drinks.

www.al-anonuk.org.uk/ are very good, aswell as meetings there are podcasts and other resources on the website.

You have to look after yourself. Life with an alcoholic is debilitating and depressing. definitely look into al anon they are there to help and support you.

The one logical reason I can think of for her to feel the need to self sabotage and self medicate with alcohol that she gave my Dbro up for adoption, aside that and the later loss of elderly parents, she has had a good life.

Ten years after she gave up my Dbro she had and kept me, but was a terribly lazy and disinterested parent to the point that she tried to get rid of me too, but was stopped by my grandparents (which may or may not have been a blessing)

I wonder if she feels guilt and remorse for her lack of being a mother, but her behaviour now contradicts that as she's had umpteen chances to make up for her shortcomings and simply doesn't bother or care to try and make up for lost time.

My Dbro came back into her life six months ago and she's very uninterested, she isn't emotionally moved by their reunion or struggling with it, she's simply unphased.

I do wonder whether she has a personality disorder that has gone undiagnosed because it's not healthy or normal for a mother to be so emotionally detached to her children, and now grandchildren.

TreeFu don't bother trying to analyse it.

she is what she is, and until she decided to get help and want to change, there is fuck all you can do. So don't waste your time picking over why's and how, it will get you no where. Even if you think you know why she drinks, it won't help you change anything about her. it'll just make you more frustrated and upset.

I completely agree with you OP, some very nasty unhelpful posts here and as someone with a long term medical condition/"disease" through no fault of my own, I cannot accept that someone has a disease when there is an element of choice affecting their "disease" and especially when they can choose whether to take their drug of choice or not. Many many people have mental health issues but choose to go to their GP for help rather than self medicate with alcohol. To compare alcoholism with diseases that are not self inflicted is downright insulting to those who have diseases which are not self inflicted.

@DaedricLordSlayer is right - I would just add that my heart goes out to you. My mum wasn’t the best mum (somewhat detached emotionally, didn’t bother to do anything to help or support me when I was bullied for 5 solid years at school, favoured my sister over me, refused to stop smoking in the care even though it made me car sick), but she was a great mum compared to yours. As a mum myself, I just wish I could give you the biggest hug.

For the sake of your own mental health step away don't try to understand don't try to change her get on with your own life keep her at a distance she is never going to be the parent you need

Thanks ladies

I was discussing the "disease or not a disease" topic with DP tonight who said pretty much exactly that Pavlova said. He doesn't suffer from any diseases or longterm health problems himself thankfully, but did say he's insulted on the behalf of others who do, for alcoholism (binge drinking in my mother's case) to be considered an illness when there are people with illnesses and serious health problems that didn't begin with the sufferer choosing to over indulge for whatever reason.

I'm very interested in all of the different opinions on the topic and am taking them on board.

It just seems very self indulgent in my mother's case and labeling it a disease exonerates her from accountability, when she's shown on many occasions that she can indeed go without it.

As somebody who used cannabis on a daily basis before stopping entirely in my late teens, I can empathise with the all consuming craving and perceived "need" to acquire what it is I was craving - but even then was never selfish enough to allow that to take priority over those around me and when somebody stepped in and said they think I have a problem, I was ashamed and I addressed that.

Given how my DM isn't currently physically dependent I can't help but compare the two addictions and that reinforces my anger at the fact she's being very selfish.

It also pisses me off that she hasn't got off her backside to work one single day since before she had me, despite being perfectly able bodied.

I don't see why she should be given £250 per fortnight from the government purse to sit on her backside and wax it on alcohol.

I helped her find a voluntary job to get her out of the house and occupy herself and after one day helping out in a charity shop she chinned it off and said she can't be bothered.

She's a lazy self indulgent drain on resources, not to mention the cost to the NHS whenever she falls over and bangs her head or whatever else.

I think having had a child adopted would affect her pretty badly whether she admits it or not.
I wasn't trying to suggest that you could do anything about the issues that have made her how she is, I was just trying to say that whether it's obvious or not alcoholics are drowning their feelings in drink. Something has happened to them in their past and affected their mental health. Happy go lucky, healthy people don't become alcoholics.
Your mum is drinking because she feels better when she does.

Ah sweetie! Been there! Why can't you walk away? For your mental health. She's told you she has zero interest in stopping. Protect yourself and your family

Sorry I may have missed it, but OP, how does her behaviour whilst drinking affect you?

She is an adult, can actually do what she wants within the law, and even if that means she will get ill eventually, thems the rules.

If her behaviour is having a detrimental effect on you, time to cut the apron strings and let her at it.

Keep non personal contact if you want, but honestly you may have to just think what is best for YOU now.

Wishing you well.

When I say her behaviour affects me I mean mainly in terms of worrying which I do a lot of despite my best efforts not to. I'm constantly waiting for the next call to come to say she's fallen over or injured herself, or is causing a nuisance at her sheltered accommodation, or worse - has died.

I get drunk phone calls which stress me out as I hate to see or hear her under the influence.

She causes problems between me and other family members.

She tells no end of lies.

She's come to my house drunk and raised her voice in front of DS (swiftly nipped in the bud as she's banned now)