To say its not a disease its a habit which started with choice. Alcoholism

[TreeFu]

My mother is a prolific binge drinker much to the detriment of myself and others around her, she has accepted she has a problem with drink but cannot be bothered to do anything to change her habits.

She can and does go for periods of time without touching one drop of alcohol, this is when she has no money to access it. During those periods she is just fine without it but as soon as she has access to money, she will binge until it runs out.

AIBU to believe this has nothing to do with disease and is down to her being weak willed, selfish and enjoying booze more than she cares about the wellbeing of those around her.

tree I would ring the police and ambulance. A lady who I work with now used to work as a police call handler, and she said they had calls from the public all the time, in situations like these.

They've heard everything, what you say won't shock them. Not to scare you, but your mum could die, and I cannot believe how stupid and irresponsible your aunt is being. If the ambulance seem it serious enough to get paramedics out (which I am sure they will, considering no one knows what condition she is in), and you explain the situation re possibly passed out mum and aunt, police will attend to assist paramedics in gaining access to the buildings.

I know it's hard, but make that phone call OP.

I don't know what the answer is, but my husband was an alcoholic and died far too young, he broke himself and in turn broke us all, including his parents, siblings, extended family, we will never get over his tortured life and his sad sad death, I pity anyone involved with an alcoholic

Any news OP?

YABVU

It is a disease because its miserable, painful, destroys your body, your mind, your intelligence, your relationships, your self respect and takes so much agonising willpower to cope with, let alone overcome.

For those saying that some people get clean and stay clean. Yes. 5% do. Strong ass people with the support of others that believe they are fighting a disease and see their strengths, not their weakness.
More people die. More people stay addicted. Often when people expect too much and expect them to do it alone.

If it helps. Instead of thinking of your mum, the ways shes personally let you down and all the weaknesses you are personally privy too. Think of the strongest members of society who it has torn apart. Soldiers, olympians, priests, business men and women, royalty. No matter how much self control, how much privelege, how much integrity and determination someone has, it tears them apart, that's why its a disease. What chance did your little old mum stand up against it?

It is no life for them. It feels easier to die than to stop, easier to drink/use than to live.

As much as they abuse their drug of choice, the drug of choice is an abuser. She is in a controlling, forceful relationship and she is making excuses for her addiction because she has been poisoned and abused and controlled into believing she cant exist without her abuser.

Part of me wants to say:
There's indication that your mother has a disease and you are slagging her off on mumsnet saying its not a real illness before researching and even trying to get her help... because it is difficult for you?
But i know you will stop listening so instead I think the sentiment should be, :
Dont put her chances of survival in the hands of your worst self or the replies on mumsnet AIBU section, if you take nothing else away from this: If there is love left in your relationship, research it.

Asking people to agree with your imperfect opinion isnt the right attitude, all humans deserve help, especially our mothers, im not suggesting enabling her but researching thoroughly is warranted, even if only to bring yourself peace.

To say it is not a disease when it devours the strongest men and women on earth is to be blinded by your personal sacrifices, pain and distrust.

That's just my personal opinion based on specific education and experience, its enevitable that others will feel completely differently based on their own experience and I respect their opinions as they will have been formed by painful experience.

If the thought of her being labelled with a disease bothers you, perhaps it's because she's the one that's caused hurt and instead of you being helped through that hurt, you have you help her because she's got a disease?
It does make sense but it's an attitude born from a lack of understanding based empathy and theres only one way to let go of that anger and misery and guilt from feeling spite. Research and don't stop until you empathise, it will heal you more permanently than feeling sad for yourself ever will. Trust me, been through it. With education my empathy began to outweigh my self-pity and I never had to feel that pain again.

Christ, maybe you should read the thread before you most any more of that.

*post

It's her problem not yours, to seek ways to solve.

Linctin
Have you had an alcoholic mother?
And are you aware that the only steps to recovery come FROM THE ALCOHOLIC PERSON as ONLY THEY can save themselves.
Try and find out more before you post such drivel.

While they still have capacity that is.

Am i aware? Yes. Not only was my mother an addict but from studying the incrompensible pain her condition caused i became a psychiatrist that specialises in addiction and work with mothers and daughter's every day. I've responded to the initial post and havent read further. If more has been added that alters the circumstances then i sincerley apoligise.
My advice may have included some unproffesional ranting but I feel deeply on the subject.
Yes, changing is absolutely the responsibility of the addict and not the family but if the family dont care enough to research and understand what they are going through then why would they care enough to post and discuss. Its clearly affecting them both deeply and putting the pain of past experience aside to access the services and learn more is in everybodies best interest. The advice i gave is the current standard psychiatric opinion being taught. Their are other lines of thought. People with personal experience may feel differently. I also started writing it 5 hours ago before the bed time routine and get the impression that more information has come down the line since then. Everybody is entitled to their opinion but put personal experiences aside and save the life is part of do no harm.
I hope for nothing but healing for OP, nobody deserves this experience.
Again, if theres been a development in the thread, i am ignorant to it and apologise, I wish I could do more to remedy tension caused by my poorly timed and inappropriately put opinion... Sorry OP.

@Lictinlock - if you don’t want to read all of a long thread, you can customise your settings so all the original poster’s subsequent posts appear on a coloured background - that way you can skip through and just read their updates. The OP has posted about the things she has done to help her mother, and it is clear to me, from her updates, that she has done a lot of research and has gone above and beyond, to help her mother.

Your posts come over as very condemnatory towards @TreeFu, and I do not think she deserves that at all. I also think that, if you had read her updates, you might have moderated what you posted. I hope you haven’t really upset the OP, but I am afraid you have - and it was so avoidable.

treefu hope things have calmed down a bit now x

As a psychiatrist you may wish fir families to help but the reality is most relatives help far too much, feel overly responsible and are codependent . I don't know if you are dual trained in psychotherapy but if so surely you understand these traits of family members of addicts and there is a lot of useful information on the Nacoa site.

Many many people have overcome drink and drug habits because they had a desire to change
I'd take issue with that. Many people who have a sincere desire to change, go back to their addiction.
Often when they go back to their old friends and home.

The idea that alcohol/addiction is a choice is ignorant and wrong. Yes you are technically right in that it starts on a path of self infliction but it’s like saying lung cancer isn’t a disease because you chose to smoke. It changes you physically and psychologically and is not something that you can just “get over” by sheer force of will. It’s missing a huge piece of the puzzle to say it’s a choice.

You either believe in the disease model or don’t. Having 30 years experience of addiction I’m on the behaviour model side but at the end of the day it’s whatever helps an individual to manage their destructive behaviours.

@lincton right so the OP has been severely neglected as a child by her mother who abuses alcohol & you want to emotionally manipulate her into helping this woman? Psychiatrist my butt you are!!
Op it is not on you. It isn’t, she’s a grown woman.
& FWIW I don’t think it’s a disease. Nicotine is a far more addictive drug, with 2/3rds of those who try it becoming dependent on it. The withdrawals can include (in my case) physical vomiting, anxiety, panic attacks. No smoker has the audacity to call it a disease. No smoker gets treated with sympathy, or has excuses made for them; they’re seen & treated as the scum of the earth. Same for those who are addicted to food. It’s all self inflicted. Would never ever compare it to Cancer, or Parkinson’s.

The World Health Organisation recognise Alcoholism is a disease.A fatal disease as well.

So it is just alcoholism (addiction to alcohol) a disease then? Does addiction to painkillers, heroin, coke not count as a disease?

Because everyone is saying alcoholism is a disease, not addiction is a disease. What is the difference between the substances?

I’ve not rtft because it’s upsetting but from the bits I hve read it’s frightening how little understanding there is of addiction.
OP, you’re confusing habit, physical addition and mental addiction. Your mum is ill and she can’t help it BUT neither can you. It’s ok to step back and leave her to it. You could try al-anon if you want but please believe me when I say you can’t help her.
I’m a sober alcoholic btw

Madein1995
Yes all addiction is a disease. Everyone is saying alcoholism because that’s what the OP wants help with but the arguments apply to any addiction.

So smoking is a disease? Nonsense, it is an addiction that can lead to a range of diseases, the same as alcohol & other addictions. Anyway, call it green cheese if you like, it is no ones responsibility except the addicts. Friends and family can only protect themselves.

To be fair some scientists say it's a chronic brain disease, inc also aa, but many in the medical community do not wish it classified as such, more they call it a condition, becayse the thought process is that by labelling it as a disease it removes the element of personal responsibility required to cure it and does no favours to the alcoholic.

It does technically fit the conditions required for a chronic disease, lasts longer than three months, medicine can't cure it, vaccines can't prevent it, and it doesn't just go away. And yes smoking and drug addiction is the same and can also be labelled a chronic brain disease.

So labelling it a disease is subjective and controversial, but aa chose to label it as such.

Perhaps you could do with going to AlAnon and finding out how others have coped with this kind of situation. To a large extent there is nothing you can do about her choices, but you can learn how to cope with your feelings about the situation so that you stop being triggered by them. Feelings of anger and upset are bad for your health, so get some help.

Yes you are technically right in that it starts on a path of self infliction but it’s like saying lung cancer isn’t a disease because you chose to smoke.

False analogy. No one's saying cirrhosis isn't a disease, either.