To ask whether you think Theresa May’s deal will make it through parliament?

[wondering1101]

In your opinion - will Theresa May’s deal be voted through parliament, and if not, what do you think will happen?

What would you like to happen?

(I know it’s been done to death, but I can’t believe what an important juncture we are at).

Which in my opinion is a LOT better than sticking your head in the sand and hoping foreign countries throw us a bone every now and then.

That is really not how the EU works.

I’m British. A lot of my years (childhood especially) I lived in a world where we really didn’t have a say. As a country we literally didn’t vote for the government who ruled us. It was such a depressing time seeing the heart ripped out of the place you loved and the lack of hope. Thanks Maggie!!!!

The EU made a difference. I remember in later childhood seeing a lot of redevelopments primarily thanks to the EU.

I don’t want to see the UK break up. But truly I think that is what will happen if we go ahead with Brexit.

KataraJean

Why would I not agree with you?

Party after party have broken electoral/campaign promises election after election, and they have even been backed in court to say that it is ok to do so.

Too me it is more of a surprise that
1/ people don't realise what liars politicians are
and
2/ that people think that they wouldn't go this far in political campaign.

@QueenDoris Your Monty Python-like prediction would be quite funny if it wasn't alarmingly possible.

People keep berating David Cameron for resigning, but at the moment I would quite like the good old days when party leaders resigned on principle as soon as they lost an election. Ed Miliband, Gordon Brown, Michael Howard, Iain Duncan-Smith and William Hague all resigned. I wish Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May would do the same.

I think the chances of it going through are small but alive.
I'm a remainer and I hope it does tbh as it's the only way out I can see (of sorts) from the never ending squabbling.

If it doesn't then there won't be a GE because two thirds of MPs will have to vote in favour (not a chance).
Another referendum may well happen- not Undemocratic at all IMO given that the original leave campaign was built on LIES, something nobody seems to deny.

given that the original leave campaign was built on LIES, something nobody seems to deny.

Both sides told a lot of lies.

Ok so let’s say both sides told a lot of lies.

We all voted based on lies.

How is that democracy in action?

The only way to resolve this is for both sides to put their cards fully on the table - no lies, admit when they don’t know the answer, no Project fear - just plain old facts as much as possible.

The the electorate get to vote again and make an informed choice based on accurate information

I thought for a long time that I wanted a proper referendum, now that so many more people actually know what the EU is we know much more about what Brexit will actually look like. But thanks to the shitshow of Conservative party politics, the runaway train wreck of the British press and the orchestrated campaigns by Russian trollbots and right wing lobbyists that seem to have infiltrated even Mumsnet, I'm no longer confident that the insanity of the Leave movement can be stopped by any means except a parliamentary vote to revoke Article 50. But I don't think we'll get there. I think the Tory backbenchers will put party first, as ever, and May's deal will get through by the skin of its teeth. And God help us all.

The only way to resolve this is for both sides to put their cards fully on the table - no lies, admit when they don’t know the answer, no Project fear - just plain old facts as much as possible.

Unfortunately I don't think that's really possible (although I agree our first go was far from ideal). A lot fo Brexit is like the Heisenberg uncertainty principle - even the facts change once something else emerges, and a lot of what people claim as facts are actually just opinions.

A lot of things about the future are really hard to predict accurately and certainly can't be seen as facts.

We don't even know what a future in the EU if Brexit is stopped will look like - but there are plenty of people on both sides with opinions.

No one wants to believe they have been a sucker. No MP wants to give the message that their constituents have been duped.

BoneyBackJefferson I have no idea why I made that presumption, sorry!

Russian trollbots and right wing lobbyists that seem to have infiltrated even Mumsnet,

Genuine question, MattFreis, which posters on mn do you think are Russian troll bots and right wing lobbyists?

disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2F2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F12%2FWithdrawal-Agreement-Legal-and-Governance-Aspects.pdf%3AIIJdtI_JnqKhBQ1WfgLIDMsCnB8&cuid=4644602

This is a PDF worth reading, and then deciding if you want May's deal to go through. It's not for public consumption legal advice.

"Genuine question, MattFreis, which posters on mn do you think are Russian troll bots and right wing lobbyists?"

Don't people get banned for attempting to identify trolls?

There were definitely some here prior to the refendum, and appear to be back ( under different user names every time there is bad news).

There was a definite style to their posts regarding the LEAVE vote, and the way that they challenged any opposition as being PROJECT FEAR or discounting any organisation that didn't back leave as in the pay of the EU.

Ironic rather.

Hang on, I thought it was us old racist stupid deluded bigoted gammon leavers who were supposed to be susceptible to believing in conspiracy theories?

Well that's what the research shows.

But research also shows that brexit bots played a strategic role in the referendum.

But if bots are so effective then wouldn’t the Remain campaign also use them?

I don't think they did! If they were they weren't so spottable.

And didn't disappear on June 24th 2016.

research also shows that brexit bots played a strategic role in the referendum

link?

www.wired.co.uk/article/brexit-russia-influence-twitter-bots-internet-research-agency

That's for twitter, but there were a fair few who showed the signs on MN too.

Here 24/7, Seemingly quoting from a script/style book, went from being prolific to vanishing almost immediately after the ref.

As a country we literally didn’t vote for the government who ruled us. It was such a depressing time seeing the heart ripped out of the place you loved and the lack of hope. Thanks Maggie!!!!

What? The Conservatives won the popular vote by at least 2 million in every election from 1979-1992 and the lowest turnout was 72%.u

By contrast turnout for EU elections has never reached 40% and has fallen as low as 24%.

Claiming that the EU is a solution to unwanted and unelected governments, when there has never, ever been a UK parliament with a mandate as week as the EUs takes some bloody brass neck.