To think I can't afford principles when I need a job

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Well really i already know I can't be fussy with job applications just now. But just wondering what it's like to do a job you don't feel good about.

Its a civil service job so not criminal or anything like that. But it's with DWP and I know I will not feel good doing it.

Sorry, lenient is the wrong word you're right. Its more that we've done all we can really. We asked the man for evidence, he didn't send any so we had to rely on the AP report in the absence of any other information

You're right, lenient wasn't the right word. Fair is better. Of course he's not getting punished, sorry if it made it sound that way. More that the cm looks at the ap report and the info he's sent in. If he doesn't send anything in for whatever reason, then all we can go off is the ap report.

I accept the ap report isn't always done well, but our hands are tied unless he sends in more info. Which I tried explaining and which caused him to kick off..

Lenient was the wrong words, I was a bit frazzled at that point. I mean fair. We'd been nothing but fair all things considered. There was nothing more we could do, the ball was in his court. He's not being punished, but unless he can send in any evidence, which he objected to quite strongly, his decision will remain the same as we have nothing to contradict the ap.

OK thanks. That makes more sense. I agree there's nothing more you can do.
If he's only able to rely on his own oral evidence it's probably in his best interest to get the man recon decision out of the way and proceed to appeal as soon as possible.
Let a tribunal experianced his legendary anger and make a call on whether it fits into a descriptor or not.

Very true. Problem is that recons are rarely successful, and medical evidence is needed. It makes sense in a way, I do think persons own opinions should be taken into consideration but I guess it is open to abuse

Thanks for your kind words anyway 😀 I've thoroughly calmed down and forgotten about him now. It's like when in Tesco - when someone's horrible to you they want to get to you. If I can carry on being lovely to all my claimants tomorrow then I get the satisfaction of knowing he's not got to me 😀 again thanks for your kind words. I'm forgetting him and what was said now, but I do appreciate it 😀

*Birdsgottafly Thu 29-Nov-18 00:14:37
I couldn't do it.

Unless you are going to be destitute you'd have to be an absolute twat to work for the DWP.*

Seriously? - very surprised at that comment as you normally come across as a quite rational poster.

How dare you lump the majority of people who work for the DWP as twats. Yes UC (implemented by our government NOT DWP employees) leaves a lot to be desired - for the hundreds of thousands who claim benefits they get what they are entitled too things run smoothly. Sadly there is a number of claimants who have been let down - these people rightly so make the 'news'.

The DWP is a massive organisation with numerous departments - pensions, employment etc - you really think those who give pension advice are twats?

I work in the NHS - I experience the same - ungrateful entitled people who expect everything for nothing but thankfully in the main people who appreciate me - I love my public sector job and how bloody dare you lump all employees of DWP as twats (if I were an advisor on benefits which I believe you claim I'd rightfully sanction you for your bull reason not to take a job you were qualified for if applicable)

Just a thought.. Once you've passed your probation you'll be eligible to apply internally for many other civil service roles. It's always easier to move sideways.

It's the DWP, not an abbatoir FFS, do you not think oyf you go in and act with integrity you might even be able to help and support people through a very tricky process

Are you vegan? If not, it is very hypocritical to eat meat happily.

I agree, working in an abbatoir is unethical, but I also refuse to eat meat or animal products.

I’ve never had a good word to say about the DWP before, but I recently applied for DLA for my son and was granted with no issues, no fuss, within three weeks of receiving the forms and at the level I was expecting. After my previous encounters and those of others I was completely shocked that he got what he was entitled to. The more people who care about others and work for the DWP, the better IMO

My friend works for the DWP. I ask how she does it. She says, 'Better someone like me than a bastard'. It's not a bad point.

I must be a twat, then. Lol!

Working for the DWP opens up so many options.

I started 3 years ago, after staying at home for 8 years with my 3 children.

I am now a and training for an even better position! You can also take up diplomas and apprenticeships, apply for all sorts of departments etc and really climb the ladder once you're in.

All work places have their downsides, but work is just that...work. There are more good times than shitty times.

Also, as civil servants we can only do what the government has set in place, and we can't change those procedures. Every work place has its boss and you cannot go above them or the law.

There are always 2 sides to the stories you see in the click-bait news.

I've made many friends, had many adventures, had highs and lows...your colleagues take care of one another.

The best thing is getting to help someone who is really struggling, but you can't save everyone.

I do a similar job for the dwp and had a lot of the same debates before I applied. Unfortunately like you I need a job to pay the bills. From my perspective someone has to do the job and I do my best to make a difficult process as easy and un anxiety provoking as possible. By all means pm me If you want to chat about it more.

Unless you will be the decision maker then you will just be following procedures. I would take it and see what it is like. If you hate it then look for an internal transfer or secondment. Civil service allows that.

I'm in the unusual position of working for Citizens Advice but being based in the Jobcentre and have found the DWP staff to be very similar those from CA. The ones I work with genuinely want to help people and move them forward and I've found them be very caring. I'm not sure what kind of work you would be doing and think that being a decision maker or working on a helpline would be stressful. However, face to face contact can be really rewarding because there is actually a lot you can do to help people (get emergency payments for them, provide them with vouchers if they need buy clothes for an interview etc). I think you should go for it. There's nothing to lose and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

People have undiagnosed mental health issues and therefore sometimes cannot provide evidence. It is actually quite difficult to make a diagnosis. You do not have the authority to make such a comment and I don’t feel it’s ethical to offload about a persons case on a forum. I would rather the OP on the end of a telephone helpline. I appreciate you need to offload and it must be very hard being on the end of abusive behaviour , however that does not qualify you to make jusgments if a persons mental health.

Also there are many flaws in the system. The odd comment here saying scroungers should work highlights the prejudices that are allowing austerity measures to go through. The poverty in this country has recently been the subject of a shocking report by the UN. The commons committee are currently requesting a report for evidence to investigate how the system is failing and the shocking poverty and death that people are plunged into . If anyone has relevant experience including those affected adversely by benefits cuts , then google.

^^ part of that comment was in response to madein1995

Someone needs to adminster work and pensions, right? It's not like you think this kind of department shouldn't exist? Then there's your answer.

In my experience, an awful lot of civil servants are nice and principled people who have to accept working to the policies of different governments, but who are most interested in ethical, evidence based practice. I imagine a lot of the people in the frontline jobs of DWP enjoy it most when they can actually help someone with their job or pension. But, as in most jobs, you have to accept organisational policies that you might not like or that may stop you from being who you'd like to be for the customer - what would the alternative settings be for you?

To me, the morally dodgy jobs are the ones that you think simply shouldn't exist at all or should be illegal - say, the role of marketing manager whose job it is to flog cigarettes to the developing world for British American Tobacco. That's a tad different.

Give it a try, you might be surprised to learn that the vast majority of people working for the DWP have their customers best interests at heart, and are in fact only implementing the rules of the Goverment that the people they are serving have voted in.
To assume you have to have no principles to work for DWP is ignorant to be honest.
Some people working for DWP care so much they lay awake worrying about their customers on a night. Dependant on the role they help find housing, drugs rehabs, counselling, healthcare, childcare and even help with applications for other more appropriate benefits.
I’d say give it a go, if you like helping people, and are committed and happy to working in a fast paced environment- you will love it. Just be prepared to give it your all, knowing you are doing a good job, but the general public will hate you believing the rubbish they read in the newspapers.

Only those with luxury of options,choice and solvency are so choosy
It’s DWP not a gulag or internment camp and it’s easier to get a job from a job
And potentially access to internal jobs list in other depts

Being a civil servant at dwp is a very good job (especially if you're a parent). They are very fair, you can work part time/term time so you have school holidays off.
Yes it is stressful at times but then again most jobs are. It's how you treat the customers that count. I was proud to work there for 14 yrs

The DWP surely has more jobs than processing UC. You are putting hurdles in front of you that may not even appear. Take the job for goodness sake, it will give you independence and improve your finances, hopefully.

I am bemused by your post. The job of the civil service is to implement the policies of the government of the day within the law. It makes no sense to write off an entire government department as being "against your principles"

Jobs i could never do work for a company I know uses cheap or child labour from poorer nations. So that vast majority high street and online retailers. Presume you don’t shop with vast majority of retailers either.

work for a bank which has questionable investments most investments and pensions are interlinked in some way to something someone finds “questionable”

work in a tanning salon - why?is it aesthetic or exposure to the chemicals

build weapons/cigarettes in fact two wholly different tasks and skills set. Building a weapon is likely to be engineer/IT. Tobacco/ cigarette manufacturer is factory work

Working in an abbotair isn’t unethical it’s just not to many folk liking
And it triggers sensibilities and lifestyle decisions
My mate worked in a fish factory, wasn’t brill but paid comparatively well and overtime seasonally

‘ To think I can’t afford principles’. I think this a real insult to the many employees in dept from the lowest paid up.

No doubt there is much room for improvement but it has to be run by someone or no one would get anything.

I hope you and your principles find something genuinely worthy.

I think your biggest worry op will be deciding whether you can work in a very stressful environment with a very heavy workload.

I'm not making judgements on a person's mental health, not at all. I'm not qualified to make judgements, u quite agree. If he hasn't got other evidence then he has no other evidence. He may well have mental health issues, I don't decide whether he does or doesn't and to be honest it is none of my business or concern whether he did or didn't.

It is my business getting spoken to like that. And no, mental health is not an excuse for that, in sorry. I may have seemed like I was venting and I'm sorry if that's the case. I was trying to show the people who think we are 'evil' exactly what we face each day. Not a judgement on his conditions, as you rightly said I'm not qualified and as I said, it's none of my business. It was just to show people the reality. And obviously to show the affect that kind of behaviour has on people and why its unacceptable..

Anyway, good day today. I did some good. Included taking 25mins talking an elderly man through his form, getting someone's payments reinstated as someone had wrongly suspended someone, being able to tell someone they were awarded pip and the money they were getting. Sorting a big mess for a man who had been shoved from pillar to post. I changed his details, updated his bank details, checked and reinstated his payments and talked to the assessors on his behalf. It took 40mins to sort out but he was genuinely grateful that I'd actually sorted him out.

Again sorry if people took my post as I was judging that man's MH conditions. I wasn't , not my business or frankly my concern, either way. My concern was just showing people the reality and that we're not actually heartless. Sorry if some people took that as me judging his condition, hope I've made things clearer