To think I can't afford principles when I need a job

[Cookiesagain]

Well really i already know I can't be fussy with job applications just now. But just wondering what it's like to do a job you don't feel good about.

Its a civil service job so not criminal or anything like that. But it's with DWP and I know I will not feel good doing it.

I found teaching more stressful than working at DWP - though expect some abuse down the phone.

You spend the majority of your time in DWP helping people. The bad times happen and are bad, but stand out more for their relative infrequency.

As for the policies - and strict adherence to - I get the you're-complicit argument; but don't quite agree. Also, polices change. Governments change. That you'd be helping people in distress doesn't. That you can't help them all doesn't either.

Some lovely people work there. Some proper bell ends too. And there is a definite cohort of old war horses with a holier than thou attitude to their 'customers'. These are being replaced, and performance management includes behaviours to both colleagues and customers.

@DisrespectfulAdultFemale dunno if that was aimed at me but no it's my caring responsibilities and disabilities in my case.

Ohh EO in a jobcentre. That sounds pretty stressful and depressing to be honest OP.
I don't find jobcente "help" especially helpful in finding a job. Needlessly pressurising would be closer to the mark. I'm not sure it would be possible to dothe role in a way that was helpful. You won't be trained in careers advice.
You will probably have to refer people to a decision maker to consider a sanction at some point.
Theres an argument, i suppose, that its better if reasonable people do it rather than sadists. But its not one of those DWP jobs that is fundamentally useful.
I'm kind of disappointed that they are recruiting for this role rather than back office stuff to sort out Universal Credit backlogs.

CrookedMe thanks. I'm sound enough in what I believe to ignore that.

I completely stand by being supportive of a welfare system. And i don't lose my right - or indeed my obligation - to live ethically because I recieve benefits. I mean that as a principle beyond this specific example.

Thing is you need a job to pay for the things you need, the DWP are offering a salary so 🤷🏻‍♀️ It’s a no brainier really isn’t it.

If you got offered the job you could take it and still look for something else but at least you’d have a salary coming in and a reference for when you need it.

I was never a decision maker, but could see that as a mix of grim and infuriating.
The UC contract states you get paid X but have to do X in job searching and attending appointments. There's a list of automatic approval situations where missing the appointment is fine; and it can be nice to give people that reassurance.
Sometimes, you'd get a person's tale of woe and you can see that they're trying to do the right thing, just not very effectively. That can be hard sometimes. I once re-arranged an appointment that fell into a bit of a grey area in that reasoning, I was picked up on it but stuck to my guns - and had good enough standing to be able to do so.
The majority of the time though, you'd get scenarios where you think work'd never accept that. Things like: it was raining so I didn't want to go to the bus stop to get to job centre for my appointment; I'm going on holiday so may not be able to search for jobs; my cat is sick.

I had a letter through from the tax credit people saying I owed them £8000 as I didn't tell them about my new job (I did). All payments got stopped - tax credits form the vast majority of my income, am a single parent with a 3yo.

I begged and begged them to just listen to the phone call on the 4th July. I remembered the exact time I phoned them and informed them about my job (same hours, same money so no overpayment or anything). They all said no - nothing we can do, you can appeal but it will take a year.

I was on the brink of suicide. I had lived in a homeless hostel when I was pregnant and it is a violent, terrifying place - no place for a young child. I couldn't go back there. But there was no way I could afford my rent without TCs.

I got my MP involved, who tried his best but ultimately didn't do much. Then I started a thread on here - a lovely woman who worked for them PMed me and told me to phone up and ask to speak to - I forget the name now - but basically the department for vulnerable people. When I did, they demanded to know how I knew to ask for that department. I said I saw it online - they shouted THAT INFORMATION IS NOT PUBLICALLY AVAILABLE! well maybe it bloody should be, or maybe somebody should have told me in the past 10 phone calls where I'm sobbing down the phone that me and my child will be homeless. I'm a young single parent, was undergoing a MARAC at the time after domestic abuse, history of mental illness yada yada. Couldn't get much more vulnerable yet not one of those people I spoke to told me there was another option - just said appeal and wait a year with no money and no more we can do.

Anyway, within a couple of days of that phone call (but well over a month with no money) I had started receiving payments again. I was also instructed to email the CEO. Within a week, I got a letter through from his PA saying I was right and giving me £50 for my troubles

Anyway, I know that's the HMRC not the DWP. But that MN poster honestly saved my life, I believe. There are loads of wankers in the system, I get they have to face a lot of abuse (I'm a GP receptionist, I feel their pain)! But a good egg can make a huge difference.

@Cookiesagain

I have been screwed over a lot by the benefit system (ESA and PIP) however, when they took away my ESA, I had to go to the job centre on a weekly basis and the lady I saw, was encouraging and supportive to the point she dropped me having to visit to once a month as she could see there was no way I was going to be able to get a job at all, she arranged it all, did all the work for me and by the time I had to go back again I had my ESA back (very quick for it.)

I am now in a much better position now and if I lose my ESA again in the next few months, I would like to be able to see someone who was as supportive as she was.

If only "utter twats" take up jobs with the DWP, everyone who needs to claim benefits will be screwed. People with a good sense of empathy and strong principles are the people who should work for them!

I have two kids who have graduated and signed on while looking for work. Neither of them had any problems with the DWP. Lazy arse DS even overslept one morning he was due to sign on and when he phoned his adviser to confess was told, "No problem, come in later."

DS also did a bit of a placement with the DWP to help his CV and sat in on some of the classes and courses they were running to help people with mental health and addiction problems find work. He was actually really impressed with the level of kindness and understanding shown.

I would imagine that the culture would vary form one office to another, even within the same framework of guidelines, with compassionate helping at one end and punitive jobsworth rule reinforcing at the other.

There is a long, long list of jobs I wouldn't do. I can afford to have principles right now though, just about. I would quickly drop my principles if it was a matter of survival.

You could take the job, see what it's like and if it goes against what you believe is fair and just then quickly apply for other things.

The actions of one employee at the dwp almost destroyed me this year.

I suspect her actions started by her following some very unpleasant internal targets. Now that’s the employee being put in an impossible position where even a nice person is caught in a catch 22. Being forced to carry out unethical practices as part of their job.

However this person wasn’t nice, and she really got into the whole thing, and err, ‘went beyond her remit’ on it. In fact she then embarked on 8 months of increasingly shocking behaviour which went from being unprofessional and slid into being clearly harassing and discriminatory.

Luckily she went too far and so sure of herself that her harrassment and prejudice became so blatant, and she didn’t even bother to try and hide what she was doing. In the end it became so clear what she was doing that my friend was able to get a senior manager involved who had to support the complaint. They were very apologetic, I think because they were scared I’d take it further. Which shows they didn’t quite ‘get’ the consequences of what had happened. I was too scared and broken and ill to take anything further. That’s what happens when someone who has power over you bullies a vulnerable seriously ill single mother. The harrassment had worked, and I was in pieces, and too scared to do anything or say anything because of the threats she’d made.

My GP also got involved to shine a light on what had been going on and to express her horror and disgust (rather forcefully she said, I wish I’d seen it!), and arranged to expedit the benefits that this person had randomly decided to block for the last 9months. My GP must have been amazing because she sorted it all out without me having to go through some of the worst parts of the process that I was in no state to go through.

Anyway, that’s my story. I’ve not gone into detail about what she did because I find it very upsetting still. But it was horrible and cruel and completely needless.

Which is why I think you should go for the job. The dwp need more good, kind, ethical people working for them, and less of the kind that enjoy making others suffer, and enjoy the power they have.

It may be a hard job to do, for the many reasons other posters have written, but you can do good even whilst you are working for a horribly flawed system.

I’m quite surprised at the list of jobs some people won’t do! Don’t people get that urge, when they see something being done badly, to want to give it a go themselves to see if it can be better?
This is why I have thought (usually after wine) of being a teacher, doctor, nurse, doctors receptionist, doorman, Vodafone employee, bus driver, etc etc

I also HAVE worked in a casino and for a payday lender! The former was a very essential second job on a zero hours contract (which ended up being almost every weekend for two years...) and the later was a thought out career step. It was a high street payday lender rather than Wonga (so I don’t know what they’re like) and there really wasn’t anything terrible about the company at all. The worst thing for customers was a few years ago when the government increased the checks that were needed, and some people could no longer access payday loans. What do you think happened then? Think they magically stopped needing money? Or do you think they still needed to get that money somehow, and much nastier things happened than borrowing £50 and paying back £60?

Imagine you don't take the job and find yourself at the mercy of universal credit? It would be a cruel irony to find yourself at the mercy of the DWP.

I am call centre staff for DWP, have been on CSA, PIP and now IS, but will inevitably go to UC as IS is now winding down and there are UC staff in the building already.

There used to be AHT (average handling time) targets 2 years ago, but now there are not, the only yardstick now is call quality, where if I do security correctly and do all the things correctly that I need to do in the calls I am checked on then I am good. obviously professional conduct and all normal job rules ect apply as well

Sometimes you can help clients, fix a mistake, tell them good news signpost to other help, sometimes it is routine admin, change address, report a child/pregnancy, got a job ect and sometimes it is difficult clients demanding the impossible, lying and screaming at you for something.

Sometimes you have to explain the difference between JSA IS and ESA because Income Support Allowance is not a real thing and no you don't get IS just because you have a low income - you have to have a low income and be unable to work because of other responsibilities (child, Caring, Study). and Low income is less then £73.10 per week. People, even people who have been claiming for years can have really wrong ideas about what the benefits are actually for

All that to say most of time it is easy and some of the time it is policies you cannot help but follow and I have told people to go to their MP many times as the thing (usually the £73.10) they are disagreeing with is the law and only MPs can change the law.

TBF most of the problems with UC is because they are implementing a new system every one needs to get used to the new rules, but most of the time it comes down to someone not attending a JCP at all.

I think that those who can work should not expect to live a state-sponsored life when potentially able to work.

DogToy: great idea. Let's start with putting the fucking parasites in Buckingham Palace out to get proper jobs rather than let them keep having more and more kids that our taxes have to pay for.

I think you should go for it. I know some of the current policies are awful but the DWP is - in and of itself - a vital service. The name and the experience will probably boost your CV. And if you hate it surely you can quit?

@ReanimatedSGB fantastic 😂

Mixed bag at work today, and one of the days that make it extremely hard to cope. Extremely heightened claimant who was shouting at me because I had the cheek to advise him to send evidence in for his recon. This was me persecuting him of course, and he said he would hang himself purely to spite me, that I am evil and that he would find out my details and name me personally. He tried telling Mr that if he did something to himself it was my fault. I've dealt with enough suicidal people to know he wasn't genuine. He was just a angry entitled vile human being, who thought it a good way to try and get one over on staff.

I'm not prepared to be spoken at like that, shouted at him not to dare speak to me like that, assured him I would not be responsible and told him not to ever imply I was, again. And hang up

And it's calls like this that affect you. In what world is his rabtung my fault, how DARE he blame it on me when actually the system has been lenient considering he had sent hardly any evidence in. It made me angry more than upset, absolutely furious that someone thinks it's acceptable to put that on you. Someone uothread said the DWP drive people to suicide. Think whatever you want but please don't tell the poor agents that. Cos some people won't get angry, they get upset. And what right exactly do claimants have to make you feel like this? And of course these customers will continue ringing and continue abusing staff and on and on it goes

The meaning of this post isn't to whine honestly. Bar for him my calls were lovely and the best way for me to get my revenge is to get on with my life. But it's to shoe the public what we actually put up with, because I'm sure people must think it's all eating biscuits and laughing. It's a complete lack of understanding that makes people call us all twats, so this is just to hopefully enlighten people what it's like..

And before people say he's vulnerable - no. He hasn't a support worker, has no Dr or medical involvement which is seriously unusual when someone has MH issues. He had no diagnosis and the basis of his claim was he gets angry , and of course drs are twats for not prescribing anythy, and his main complaint is he gets angry

Also I've dealt with enough suicidal people to know when someone is being genuine and not. For a start most genuine people would be upset when saying it, if they said it at all, as it's a cry for help. They certainly wouldn't be using it as a threat. He almost said it gleefully, as though he was purposely trying to upset me, calling me a murderer etc. That's not what genuine people do, nor do they laugh about how it'll end your career when they say it

And no excuses about how desperate he must have been etc. I don't care in that situation. I try my best, but there is absolutely no excuse for attacking someone like that, regardless of your life and money and anger issues.

And prod like that actually do genuine suicidal people a disservice. Because they make a mockery of it. By using g it as a threat and laughing and calling me a murderer and attempting to make staff feel guilty, they are making an absolute mockery of genuine people

My self care stuff is important in these situations. Calm down, talk through with my manager, have some time off the phone. I might seem angry and honestly I am, that people think it's ok to talk like that and it's accepted. The reality is calls aren't usually this bad. But I'm just trying to get the public to see the reality of what we are faced with daily, and we are actually the good ones. We certainly aren't twats

I’m currently helping someone apply for the same job you’re looking at.

I also worked on the “front line” in the DWP, and housing benefit departments, for a number of years. I too have Principles. I eventually left because I couldn’t stand it frankly, I didn’t want to deal with the management or the customers anymore. I had the luxury of being able to leave just like that, but if I had had to stay because I needed the job, it would have been soul destroying, largely because my moral compass doesn’t let me comfortably put aside my principles. I suppose I’m a bit of a crusader at heart!

What I will say is that it is worth going for if only to get in to Civil Service. I now work for a different govt department (sorry won’t say which) and I really enjoy it. I am still front line, but we also have a genuine opportunity to influence the legal framework of the work we do. The DWP is huge, 85k employees, so many, many Civil Servants started their careers there. I would apply, and if you get it it will be fine for a while, pass your probation (6 months) and apply elsewhere. Many of the best opportunities are only open to existing Civil Servants.

Sorry if I've derailed things. It's not my intention. Just asking a) that if any of you do feel the department us driving you to suicide- please do not say we personally are responsible. If you're genuinely distressed we will help you but it isn't fair to make the agent feel like that. Obviously you're not always in the right frame of mind and I'm not on about that, but whatever you do don't throw those words at someone in anger. In upset, it's upsetting for us but understable. In anger it's just not on

And b) please don't class us as twats. Not until you've actually seen what we put up with. We don't deserve sympathy of course not. But nor do we deserve to be attacked or just thought badly of, because of our job.

Madein1995

I'm really sorry you had to deal with that today. It sounds shitty.
I'm a bit confused about your choice of language though. What did you mean by this:

"actually the system has been lenient considering he had sent hardly any evidence in."

It sounds like a mandatory reconsideration on the issue of entitlement (following a work capability assesment?). Its not a situation where he's being punished. Theres simply a disagreement about whether he meets the qualifying critiera.
I find it really odd that you would talk about it in terms of leniency.