To think I can't afford principles when I need a job

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Well really i already know I can't be fussy with job applications just now. But just wondering what it's like to do a job you don't feel good about.

Its a civil service job so not criminal or anything like that. But it's with DWP and I know I will not feel good doing it.

A friend of my Dad worked for them for a while, answering the phone on a helpline for people claiming benefits. They had targets to deal with each call within a timescale which was averaged out and they'd get a bollocking if they were taking too long.
They were also not allowed to tell someone of any benefits that they might be entitled to unless that person asked specifically about it. The calls were monitored to check they weren't telling Mrs Jones that she could be entitled to council tax benefit when she'd phoned about her pension credit.
It sounded hideous. I don't think I could do it.

Dwp aren't inherently bad though its just they are carrying out some questionable policies at the moment.
Jobs i could never do:
work for a company that cold calls elderly and vulnerable people
work for a company I know uses cheap or child labour from poorer nations
work for a gambling company
work for a payday loans company
work for a bank which has questionable investments
work in a tanning salon
build weapons/cigarettes

I agree with this. I ‘could’ work in an abattoir, in fact I have worked in an abattoir. It didn’t bother me at all as I felt I had control over whether the animals were treated humanely or not. Better that I was there than someone else who didn’t care.

I could and would work with a job that dealt with DWP because I would do it as fairly, compassionately and sensibly as was possible. I also know I’m a hard and conscientious worker and wouldn’t leave work half done or botched.

OP, it’s better you do it than someone who doesn’t care.

Debs that isn't right at all. I've worked in care and none of my training for any of that involved having to take our clothes off.

You can be trained on how to dress and hoist clients on the job.

Im sorry you went through that, it sounds awful.

Debs811, that is not part of any training to work as a carer, I've been a carer all my working life, I'm fifty now and and had to give up work some time ago to care for my son (I know, the irony) there is no way anyone is asked to strip to their underwear to facilitate training, that should not happen, don't let that happen again to you, who ever delivered that training needs to be reported to the authorities, its wrong on so many levels, hope you are ok.

@Debs811 I know this is somewhat derailing the thread but if you feel able to, I would report what happened to you. And if you are still dwelling on it in any way - and it sounds like you understandably are - I would raise a complaint and see if you can reach any kind of closure that way. If you think it might help you? Reporting it will certainly help others in the future. I just find myself imagining doing eg a first aid course with my team and being asked to strip off so they can practice bandaging me or cpr. Mind boggles. That’s what the flipping dummies are there for.

If it pays your bills and feeds your kids then take it.

I cannot afford principles. If I could then I wouldnt spend my working hours selling booze to alcoholics, but frankly my kids mean more to me than a randoms liver.

Sometimes you have to choose between eating and caring. Choose eating.

Go for it, your principles won't keep you warm and fed.

And yeah the system isn't great, but you can help from within. I work on the PIP enquiry line and while I am looking for another job- it's because I'm on a temp contract and I want a job in a specific sector anyway.

There are bad (lots of bad). People take things out on you a lot and can be totally and utterly unreasonable, it's all your fault of course. On the flipside the system is shit, long waits and shit assessors for one, and it's hard not doing anything. It's also heart breaking hearing stories

You need resilience. You can't change the world and if you try you'll mess up your own MH. Ultimately, whatever happens it isn't your fault personally. For eg if someone can't feed their kids as payment suspended as they didn't inform of bank change and we need to sort it. You can signpost them to agencies, but it is not your fault. I'm lucky in that I worked with DV victims before so learnt how to detach before. One of my friends struggles to do that. Ultimately you can't take things to heart. It's sad but it's life and you can't wear yourself down. Try your hardest to help, but don't take it personal. That's essential. You can't save everyone and you can't kill yourself trying. I just do my best, and yes it is sad when I can't do more for someone but do I feel guilty, no. If I was in charge of run things differently. But I'm not and I can't, I have no power at all so why should I feel guilty.

And you can do good from within, I do. Yes the majority of my calls are horrible and abusive and I had to terminate 2 calls today ( I couldn't go into someone's case without their NI no for security reasons, of course it was my fault...) But some I know for a fact I help.

The lady who'd suffeted horrific abuse in her childhood, who I helped calm down and gave a pep talk, and then had to brush my feelings to aside and crack on. The man yesterday who got paid today and had no heating last night. No doubt last night was tough but I made his day telling him the payment

The lady who lost 2 sons and a husband all in the last 5 years, who I had to sort he son's arrears for and help. The lady who I found the number for a DV charity, the man who I got the number for his local MH charity, the man who I got homeless shelters numbers fir. All this without being asked, just thinking I could help outside of their benefits

Not to mention that I signpost to other benefits, I give them tips on completing their claim. The recons I always offer to send the full report, and though we don't get told to, I send a letter to claimants with mh needs when they want a recon, explaining in simple terms what t do.

Now of course bthis affects my stats. I'm never the one ending the calls quickly, not when I spend 30mins calming someone down and making them promise to ring their support worker, and arranging to call back after to check in on them. Not when I spend time making individual letters explaining the long process to claimants. But I don't care, because stuff my stats. I'm helping and doing the best I can.

And it is hard and you do toughen up and I'm not afraid to be stern when needed, which is often. But I'm also told I'm too soft and many claimants thank me for the support. Like today, if I'm checking something, Ive started telling claimants about their Xmas payment if it's affected. I don't need to do that, I could just leave it, but I want to make the process a bit easier

People have such a bad view of the employees. Honestly we don't agree with the system but it's better than working in Tesco on 10 hour contacts. And yes some people do get cynical, I don't but I am a caring and positive person.

In truth the majority of my colleagues are like me. One of the girls is in tears most days because of the sad things she hears. I'm of the view me getting upset won't help. Me carrying on as I am , is. And I can do more good inside the system than out. And I know in my heart that I do good for some claimants, and I leave work each day with a clear conscience

I'm glad others are responding to you Debs. It really isn't ok. I wasn't sure if your response was lighthearted so i was wary of making it something other than how you were seeing it. I would also hate to make you feel bad if you joked along with it or similar at the time. Because that would be perfectly understandable.

Sorry cross posted with you @Debs811

birds thanks for letting me know I'm a twat. How silly of me. My advice, the phone numbers I give, the support I give, the calming down I provide, the good service, the trying to sort their problems, the being a shoulder to listen on, the helping to make the process a bit easier to understand - that's not helping at all is it?

Of course not! I do all that because I'm an evil cow who completely runs the country, who totally enjoys people sobbing at me, who relishes telling people they've been disallowed, who loves making someone's day shit, and who has the power to change the system but who simply can't be arsed.

Now you've given me that lovely bit of wisdom, I'll resign tomorrow, and God helps the next person who rings up who could do with signposting to another service - he'll just have to whistle for it won't he?

Goodness give your head a wobble. Do you seriously think the workers have ANY say in what goes on? Wouldn't you rather kind compassionate people be employed to you know, actually support vulnerable claimants?

Madein1995 what a really helpful post thank you. I can relate to much of what you say - and your work experience. I still struggle when I feel I haven't helped as much as clients want me to. But I'm learning to set it aside. Your work sounds like there are many similar elements to what I do at moment. I hadn't considered that level of cross over with "helping" roles.

There's nothing inherently wrong with working for the DWP. It's so disorganised and error strewn though that I think it could potentially be quite soul destroying to work for. It depends how much freedom you'd have to go the extra mile and help people vs just having to carry out punitive work procedures set from above.

Friend did similar.brokedown with pressure and stress.becasue the problem is with people saying you can act with compassion and integrity.the way things are at the moment they aren't doing right even by people who do need it.and there are too too many people struggling with claming and not getting what they should and being put through terrible test and actions that should NEVER be put upon some people in the conditions they are in.and you have to do them.
also managers and having to do certain things behind the scene can be terrible.ive heard some awful things.
the dwp system is NOT acting with integrity and not acting with compassion.so no matter how lovely some of the staff are the job is shit.and fucking up a lot of people lives.especially with current climat and changes.

Are you able to say what the role at DWP is?

I worked at DWP for a while. I was on the Fast Stream so was allocated to the Dept, and was a social researcher there which I liked because I did feel 'neutral' - I worked in a team who were looking at behaviour and attitudes, and it was brilliant to be able to get the chance to actually speak to people about their views, to find out what people thought about various issues and to look at how to improve things.

I think I would have struggled in some roles, where it would perhaps be doing things that are not always what feels right. So I was lucky in the division I was in. But I have to say, as an employer and as people in the area I was in they were wonderful. I am actually on PIP (mental health reasons) and struggled a lot at times, and my line manager and senior analyst were absolutely brilliant with support and encouragement. They really do look after employees (at least where I was), and the vast vast majority are of course compassionate and caring.

Take it, if for no other reason to get back into the civil service and be eligible to apply for other internal jobs.

Kate we'll have to agree to disagree then. I do get you that some roles eg work coach can be seen as bad - but again it comes down to detaching yourself. As I said you can't save everyone, nor should you try as you'll make yourself ill. Also ok the current situation is rubbish. But isn't it better there's staff who are kind, knowledgeable and support who can give support to claimants? Someone has to do it and theres enough staff shortages as it is. Isn't it best that the staff they do have try their best? And you can always show compassion in little ways, I honestly don't believe that me or my colleagues ruin anyone's lives.

People do get stressed with it all, take my colleague. That's why its a really important life skill to learn to detach from situations, in any job. Also terrible things - you can't believe everything you hear. The process is obviously very emotional and claimants can take things the wrong way. For eg, in the assessment the nurse will put that the claimant appears well nourished. This is purely because some people with MH conditions or addiction, might not be, and it's purely factual. The amount of claimants who ring up upset thinking the ap has called them fat, is quite a lot. I know things aren't great arm but I tend to go by the rule of thumb that the truth is somewhere bin between. I know myself that if I'm upset I might misconstrue or fixate on certain parts, and that does mean that while someone feels a certain way, it isn't always fact.

Cookies the potential to help is massive. You do need to be really resilient (attitudes on this thread show that!) But ultimately it's better someone like you gets it than someone who will do the bare minimum required. The conditions of working for DWP aren't fab (fixed term contract) but much better than previous jobs, they are a decent employer

I’d do it if I had to and just try and make a tiny difference when doing it. I read of a debt collector who hated his job but then realised he could help and ended up discreetly telling his struggling clients about the debt charity Christians against Poverty. Some of his clients actually said he saved them and stopped them from suicide etc.

I think you'll find the majority of people who work for the DWP and a few other government departments don't agree with what they have to do. It's whether you can be a suck it up or not?

Personally I don't work for DWP but am a civil servant and I do not agree with everything. I know alot of colleagues who have come from DWP in last few years and would not go back as they found it very distressing.

Those talking about detaching themselves it's not a long term option and it's having to do that that mentally broke alot of my colleagues.

Civil servants don’t set government policy but they do get the opportunity to shape how it’s implemented. Better someone who cares about people on the inside softening the edges of bad policy then someone who’s a jobsworth hell bent on following the rules no matter what.

We all do what we can to survive. If you're in the position to do good work, do it. But when it comes down to it, there are very few people who live by their principles once they are truly skint.

And also, it's working for the DWP. Not the BNP or the KKK or something.