To think I can't afford principles when I need a job

[Cookiesagain]

Well really i already know I can't be fussy with job applications just now. But just wondering what it's like to do a job you don't feel good about.

Its a civil service job so not criminal or anything like that. But it's with DWP and I know I will not feel good doing it.

There are places I wouldn't work out of principle and I did, in fact, refuse an interview at BAE Systems. I wouldn't put the DWP in that bracket but I do think it would be a very stressful place to work so I would try to avoid it for that reason.

I did quite a lot of work for British Tobacco as a software consultant. Didn't bother me one bit. Consenting adults and all that.

Yanbu if I needed a job and it paid well and the actual job itself wasn't horrific my principles would be ignored in favour of common sense.

Don’t look at the negative. Look at the positive- what skills and attributes you have that can make you good at the role and ultimately deliver a positive experience for the individuals you are supporting. Yes you will not always be able to give them what they want, but being calm, listening, having empathy, being understanding, sign posting, can all be beneficial to someone facing difficulty and in crisis.

I think you're over-focusing on the negatives.

You'd also be helping a lot of people. Making sure people get the payments they need. Answering questions people have at very worrying times. Giving advice so that people are actually accessing all the benefits they're entitled to, even though they may not have known about all of them.

Pay your bills, woman. Working for the UN can come later, when you're not on your arse broke.

The actions of the DWP resulted in me trying to commit suicide earlier this year. That's what happens when you take a decision based on lies rather than relying on evidence from multiple healthcare professionals.

The actions of the DWP have resulted in people succeeding in committing suicide.

In your position OP I'd still say to go for the job, for the reason that I don't want you to be on the receiving end of those life changing decisions and thrown into the desperation thousands of others have faced.

I don't think you'll change anyone's life, you'll be under such time constraints you won't be able to do that. But you're a decent person and I'd rather have to deal with you than someone that doesn't give a fuck. I would question how long you'll last until it breaks you (I hope it doesn't), but in the meantime you'll do your best for the claimants in front of you.

lou totally agree. I was signed off work for years with health problems, so dealt with the DWP a lot. I have absolutely nothing against anyone working there as long as they were polite/kind/did their job. Some of them were lovely, some of them were horrible. The ones who were lovely made life much easier.

Its going to be done by someone, so better its done by someone who's kind with good morals than someone doing it because they like the power trip!

Giving advice so that people are actually accessing all the benefits they're entitled to, even though they may not have known about all of them.

DWP staff aren't there to give advice, they don't have the training to do so. They are there to administer claims, nothing more.

Unless you are going to be destitute you'd have to be an absolute twat to work for the DWP

That's absurd! You are saying that unless she turns down a job and continues to be dependent on benefits she's a twat? Get a grip. Have you never been in the situation of doing a job you didn't really want to so that you could make ends meet?? I paid for university by working in a call centre and it was bloody awful, I used to cry on the way there as I hated it so much. I had to put my hand up to ask to go the toilet like a child. It must be nice to be able to call people twats for doing what they must to live. She's not going to be a bloody drug smuggler.

I spoke to a lovely Scottish man on the Tax Credits helpline. I was so stressed and upset and in such a mess. And he helped. He had such a soft, calm voice and together we sorted it all out. Thank goodness he did.

And so, being holier than thou by not working for an evil regime you stay on benefits funded by tax paid by people who can only pay super-tax rates because they do all those evil jobs, (investors, bankers, industrialists etc), themselves.

No-one has clean hands.

There's a difference between working for a company that has questionable ethics (such as a tobacco company), and working in a job that's soul destroying.
If you can help people in your job thats great. If you can't it will finish you.

You're coming from a good place. You're not looking for a power trip. Help them and if you're not happy then you can look when your feet are under the table.

I left a call centre job when I realised we weren't calling past customers, we were cold calling old people and confusing them with half truths. The final straw was when I realised the registry my colleague was adding people to that protected them from cold callers didn't exist

The actions of the DWP have resulted in people succeeding in committing suicide.
No they haven't. A combination of life events and a government policy that the DWP is obliged to apply resulted in this. The DWP do not decide government policy, Parliament does.

Unless you are going to be destitute you'd have to be an absolute twat to work for the DWP
So spending your time processing claims to make payments to people with no other income makes you a twat because sometimes those payments go wrong?
To put it anther way. If all DWP staff left, no one is getting any benefits paid.
DWP staff do not get to decide the policy on who is entitled to what and under what circumstances - that's Parliament.

Bombardier i hope things are better now. Its a terrible process. It really is a shameful system in place. I sometimes feel disbelief that we have the food banks etc in place.

I don't sleep well at the moment dreading being dependent on UC. The anxiety that provokes makes me question whether I'm making sensible job decisions or ones based on fear. Its another element for me to weigh up.

MrsReacher I have paid more in taxes and NI than I will take out. I was happy to pay high taxes while friends got tax credits (ie benefits). I was happy to be ineligible for child benefit. I fully support a welfare state that actually helps vulnerable people and i feel no shame for needing that help now. I do not believe that needing assistance means you are not allowed to question the ethics of work that is available. Some have outlined different ways to view DWP but the reality is also that it is a system/bunch of policies that has driven people to suicide. So i do not consider it holier than thou to think it through.

"The actions of the DWP have resulted in people succeeding in committing suicide."

Incorect. By definition, the actions of the people who committed suicide, resulted in their suicide.

Adam i get what you are saying. A democratically elected government is responsible for the policies. ...but that's not enough to carry out the work of every and any policy in itself is it. It might not be DWP for you. But surely there are still some things you would not do?

That said I'm off to finish a couple of job applications.

I'd apply - you may get something better in meantime, you may not get offfered the job or you may get the job and it not be that bad.

If you do get the job and can't stand it then it's often easier to get another job if you already have one.

I work in welfare rights advice and I have complicated feelings on this subject.

I've never worked in the DWP but I've dealt with them enough to get an idea of what it might be like and I've worked alongside people who have worked for them.
Welfare rights officers tend to be on quite short contracts and are often looking for work. The possibility of working for the DWP has certainly occured to me as a safety option, since I obviously have some transferable skills.

Some of the current problems within the DWP are to do with understaffing. So I'm pleased to see that they are recruiting.

As PP have said, a lot of the problems people experiance with their benefits are to do with the system not running efficiently or decisions not being made quickly enough. If your job involves sorting this stuff out then you will be on the side of the angels much of the time....

Having said all that:

My current job involves fighting the claimants corner and utilising all the arguments possible bring their particular situation within the qualifying critieria.
I'm aware that if I was a DWP decision maker, i would be expected to tread a much more conservative line, making decisions within the guidance. I personally would enjoy that less.

I would also not enjoy being the person who actually has to refuse a claim (although im often the person who has to advise someone that their claim is likley to be refused- so perhaps its a narrow distinction).

I would certainly have a very hard time being the decision maker that decides on sanctions. I think that is a job I would genuinely be unable to carry out on moral grounds.

As PP have said: Its likely that you would lose your sympathy for claimants over time. Partly because you might have to experiance said claimants ringing you up in a distressed state and shouting at you. Partly because cognitive dissonance will tend to lead you to justify the stuff you have to do.

If that doesn't happen and you find yourself with genuine moral scruples a few months in, you could always take your working knowledge of the benefits system and cross over into advocay or welfare rights.

I hope this helps OP and good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Do it, it’s job. Just don’t do it for too long, and keep your principles. I did that and my face never really fit because of it but I know I always did my best for people and I can look back without any shame. Keep looking for something else though, I stayed way too long because it was easy to.

I worked for a multi-national oil related company for a while. It payed well, and we had really needed the money, as DH had been laid off. There were environmental protesters marching about and leafletting outside the office on a regular basis, and we had to attend training on how never to engage or comment, and various emergency procedures in the event of someone taking more direct action. It was a bit soul destroying, to be honest, and a big part of the reason why I didn't stay there a moment longer than I had to.

Friend of mine worked for them, had a nervous breakdown and was treated like poo through disciplinary channels for it. He's now on ESA and seriously mentally ill.

So your principles allow you to be on benefits but not to work? OK.

I don't think those who are piling anger and judgment on the commenters who say 'I could never do it' have experienced a mental break down caused by work. Protecting your mental health is as important as paying the bills. It's not always a 'luxury' to think you couldn't do a job. Just saying.

There’s certainly jobs that I wouldn’t want to do, whether because they don’t sit well with my principles or because I’d be a bad fit for them because of my personality etc - but if it’s a choice between a job you hate and unemployment, then there’s very little real choice, is there?
You have to do what you have to do to keep a roof over your head and food on the table.

And sometimes that means taking a job you’ll hate temporarily to tide you over while you continue applying for other, better, jobs.