to think that Labour's stance on moped ramming is stupid

[longfingernails]

The Metropolitan Police have been knocking over moped muggers with their cars, and releasing the footage as a deterrent. It's a fantastic idea which has cut moped crime dramatically.

Predictably, the Shadow Home Secretary has said 'it shouldn't be legal for anyone'.

Why is Labour's instinct always to side with the scumbag criminals over the victims, the police and the decent people?

'you and your ilk' nice.... Yes we're all such awful meanies for believing that those who commit crimes should face consequences. No-one lives a life style where the ONLY option is to be a violent criminal.

jasjas ok you have got me. I’m baffled. Why are you posting an article about knife crime in Scotland?

And you don’t need to try talk this old dog new tricks when it comes to Scottish crime😉.

And don’t put words in my mouth as I have not once called them “scum” but if all other methods fail then yes, nudge them off.

NickNaccky - i can see i'm going to have walk you through this!

So, Scotland had serious crime wave, it was dealt with by a 2 pronged attack (so to speak) the crime and cause.

If London wants to really get to grips with moped violence, it will also require a similar type of scheme.

You might need to as we were talking about moped crime in London. Not knife crime in Glasgow.

It will take more than kids visiting a court in London to solve this issue.

Oh and I know fulll well why knife possession crime has fallen in South West Scotland. And. It’s not because they aren’t carrying weapons. They are.

Oh guess where I live and work. You guessed it. South West Scotland.

In the greater scheme of things it hardly matters what I think, but FWIW I'm starting to think I was wrong and to change my mind

As said, I've never supported criminals "getting away with it" and would still prefer to prevent serious crime by getting them much earlier. But I also appreciate that, when offenders persist, public protection has to come before all else - so maybe this current initiative does have a role, providing it's done proportionately

And I also agree with this: No-one lives a life style where the ONLY option is to be a violent criminal

Can npcs like yourself make any argument without accusing people of being extreme right jasjas

Although, many dont have what you could in all reasonableness refer to as a 'lifestyle' [where crime and violence....]
Actually,there are places where kids and adults are merely surviving, and cannot survive without learning how to be sufficiently violent to protect themselves, or attack others to prevent further aggression, and have to steal to eat/clothe. Its not right, but this is desperate survival and I dont think we can pretend these circumstances dont exist, at all, ever. When you grow up in that it doesnt feel like a life style choice, and lifestyle choice from their perspective sounds like a pompous joke

Sorry but people who advocate gassing criminals or who fail to call them out are extreme right wing.

Why was my reply deleted?

When posters are labelled 'hard right', 'brainless', and 'extreme right wing' for measured, factual posts about a crime reduction tactic that is yielding results is it any wonder that the left are alienating people in their droves?

jasjas One poster responded to you bringing up gassing criminals. After your brought it up. The rest of us ignored it as it was ridiculous.

Is this the best tactic that the police can come up with? A moped of 130lbs versus a car of 3 tons ramming the moped and dismantling the rider. Possibly into the path of an oncoming vehicle, breaking bones or worst case scenario, killing the rider!
This isn’t America ‘ shock and awe’!!
The police are supposed to be trained professionals. Who should have the knowledge to bring any pursuit to a suitable and safe end! Therefore, they should not be using police vehicles as battering rams to use as they see fit! Why not use the T-PAC tactic and surround the moped. So that if the rider has it away on his toes. There will be more than enough officers to apprehend the suspect!!
I absolutely do not condone moped thieves.
A better deterrent should be found, before someone gets seriously hurt.

I love mumsnet. Where people sit in front of their iPad and are suddenly experts in pursuit techniques and “Tpac”. Policy makers should just come on here to learn how to do it.

Roadwars has a lot to answer for.

Why don't you contact the Met with your suggestions Sidelook, if you think they can do better? I'd say an approximately 40% drop in these crimes is pretty good personally, and I would prefer slight risk of injury to the suspect than increased risk to the public by speedy pursuit or danger to the police officers from armed offenders.

Why are so many posters focusing on mugging? It isn't just mugging - there have been murders and acid attacks carried out recently on mopeds.
This policy isn't supposed to be a punishment, it to apprehend the pieces of of sub-human shit doing this. If you read about recent trials, you'll notice that moped criminals are prolific with their crimes. Hindreds of attacks; sometimes several per day. The police need a way to stop them as catching them today results in 20 less crimes by the same people next week.
Knowing police aren't going to hold back and take a softly, softly approach should be a good deterrent if the thugs were capable of conscious thought. It's one way to bring them to justice (where they get 8 months, out in 4.. but that's a whole other thread.)

They are trained professionals which is why they are not doing what you just said sidelook 'ramming' is a very emotive expression, the intent is not to kill but stop the scooter, and possibly dismount the rider.

What would suggest then?

They dont use their cars as battering rams, or the mopeds would end up across the road under other vehicles, as it is they end up dismounted with hurt pride and maybe a twisted ankle. They are evading police pursuit?!?! Either on foot, in a car, or on a moped, its not going to end well is it?

Its the hard right who always and only ever deal with the crime in question, usually with draconian punishments.
so on this thread we've poster after poster calling them fuckers, cunts etc etc the dehumanise and then (hesta54) with drastic measures need to be taken as a deterrent!

Instead of taking a more holistic approach and deal with the causes as well as the crime and punishment.

oh and then when this is argued for, along comes some random PP who says i can't think for myself...really... look in a mirror lol!

I don't think a single person on this thread would argue against dealing with the causes of crime jasjas. But that isn't going to help the pedestrian about to be stabbed by a moped gang is it? There needs to be action now to deal with crimes that are already happening as well.

It's a controlled tactical stop to ram the bike causing as little damage and risk as possible to the idiot riding it. They are not aiming for the rider. They are targeting the vehicle in a manner which means the likely outcome is the driver rolls over the hood.

They are trained drivers and most hold more advanced driving skills than anyone on this thread will ever have.

A bonnet roll or a sideways fall at a controlled speed stop is not likely to ever cause anything but superficial injuries if any at all.

They're not driving them in to walls at 60mph ffs.

Kid with a knife on a moped mugging people? I bet you wished they'd rammed him off the road if he came towards you and stabbed you in the arm for your phone or handbag 🙄

And what is wrong with calling murderers, acid attackers and people who violently and indiscriminately assault and frighten their victims, who include children, fuckers and cunts?

bonnie No, we wouldn’t run them over. We would take a more “holistic” approach

😂

You could offer them aromatherapy.

At this point, the thread is about 500 posts long and i don't have all night to read it, but here are some thoughts.

Your average 50cc moped can hit a maximum speed of around 30mph, less if there are two people on it. The police are ramming these mopeds at relatively low speed. You can't compare it to the joy ride rammings which were done at high speed and generally ended badly.

Worst case scenario, at 30 mph you will likely lose some skin but as most of these charming muggers are wearing helmets to disguise their identity, they are unlikely to suffer a head injury. All of the videos I have seen the police have rammed as the moped was slowing down - approaching a roundabout or other hazard like other traffic.

It seems to me this strategy has been thought through and the police are applying it judiciously and appropriately.

I don't think a single person on this thread would argue against dealing with the causes of crime

uh? sorry thats exactly what many posters have done! over and over again.