to think that Labour's stance on moped ramming is stupid

[longfingernails]

The Metropolitan Police have been knocking over moped muggers with their cars, and releasing the footage as a deterrent. It's a fantastic idea which has cut moped crime dramatically.

Predictably, the Shadow Home Secretary has said 'it shouldn't be legal for anyone'.

Why is Labour's instinct always to side with the scumbag criminals over the victims, the police and the decent people?

Moped crime has spiked (until now) because the perpetrators knew the police weren't allowed to do anything. They literally took the piss. Is that folk really want? A country where criminals are allowed to take the piss?

Totally in agreement with police tactics.

They are doing the minimum necessary to apprehend the criminal. If the criminal wants to take their chances and resist arrest, they can’t complain.

There is no ‘good’ alternative here... Either we let the moped thugs operate with impunity, leading to far more violent muggings, or protracted Police chases, both of which are far more dangerous to public

Haven't had time to read whole thread but it is potentially unlawful.

It's is prima facie dangerous driving to deliberately use a car to ram a moped whether or not the stop is "tactical".

It is also a use of force. The police can use force (obviously) to defend themselves or others or to effect an arrest but the force has to be reasonable and proportionate. The risks associated with this policy may arguably mean that the force used is neither reasonable or proportionate.

Also, whenever an offender resists arrest, they are placing themselves at some risk when the police enforce an arrest.... so where do we draw the line?

Maybe we just need to let criminals go free if they make it difficult for the police to arrest them in case they get hurt or injured as police overpower and restrain them?! They haven’t been convicted of anything at that point so really the Police surely have no right to lay a finger on them, and we just need the Police to plead with the criminals to hand themselves in....

That’s what some the ultra-softy criminal sympathisers on here seem to be in favour of...

The police can use force (obviously) to defend themselves or others or to effect an arrest but the force has to be reasonable and proportionate

Given the circumstances, I strongly believe the force is reasonable and proportionate, as there’s no other realistic way to effect an arrest and prevent innocent members of the public being violently attacked in future moped muggings.

Once again those that believe there are dangers to giving police the right to harm people, and that being the start of an extremely slippery slope aren't criminal sympathisers so stop goading.

That might be the case or it might not Oakenbeach - it will be fact dependant.

bishop You know the police have always had lawful authority to cause injury and possibly death, dont you?

This isn’t new.

How I message HQ within MN?

They’ve deleted a comment of mine, IMO without any reason at all.

I think it is great. We need zero tolerance.

Kissing I think your post is just above your query?

But it is odd as the order of this thread has jumped about a bit on my laptop, I cannot see any deletions though?

No. Just no.
There are so many things that can go wrong. Two wrongs and all that.

I have zero issue with police ramming moped thrives. But I don’t like the idea of police ramming innocent moped riders they mistook for thieves which is very much a possibility. It’s not about what they do, it’s anout the power they have. All power is vulnerable to abuse. Think of the implications of this powerwas abused.

santa So what’s your solution?

Police cars also 'ram other cars to stop them.sadly some innocents in the past have been harmed.

Does this mean the police should not pursue anything on the roads? They pursue those on foot by car too and will try to intercept and block,using their vehicles.

What should they do, other than block them.

I think it's the emotive 'ramming' language being used that inflames it so much

Nicknacky - there isn't one, well, not under the Tories there isn't.

Look at the v substantial rise in violent crime in the last 8 years, following a falling trend.
www.statista.com/statistics/863276/violent-crime-in-london/

Yet poster after poster blame Labours Abott! FFS ! austerity, 10k cuts in Police numbers, cuts to council spending, escalating school exclusions, falling probation facilities... all have an affect...
Want to protect the public? deal with the causes, because there is potentially a huge number of criminals that can be drawn upon.

Ram a few moped riders if you want but it isn't going to make much difference at all.

jasjas I haven’t said a thing about politics so I don’t know why you are ranting at me about it.

Look you are clearly happy with violent offenders getting away. Thankfully the public and generally in favour for them getting arrested.

It shouldn't be allowed at all, I knew a boy who was rammed of his ped by someone in a car, he flew off under the wheels of a bus and was killed instantly he was then dragged down the road by the bus , full of passengers. How is this the best idea to do to anyone?

Very sad that happened but isn’t a companions. This is stopping violent offenders who are failing to stop for the police.

None of the 90 who have been stopped like this have been killed. Unlike some of their victims.

Look you are clearly happy with violent offenders getting away, Thankfully the public and generally in favour for them getting arrested

Reactionary crap which proves you ve lost the moral argument, as i ve not said that at all but keep on with your extreme right wing views.

“Moral argument”😂😂😂

Are wanting robbery suspects apprehended as quickly as possible extreme right wing views?! Who knew!!

No! you accusing me of wanting to protect criminals, which i ve absolutely not said, implied or wish.
I acknowledge the immediacy of action BUT unlike you and your ilk, you refuse point blank to acknowledge cause and effect or try and address these.
Numerous Tory ministers have tried your tactics and ALL have failed.

You need to broaden your reading and out look.

jasjas I don’t need to do anything of the sort.

This is a solution to a problem and we are not discussing how to change society as a whole.

And you are wrong actually. I said upthread that dealing with minor crime at an early stage and changing attitudes would have a knock on effect on serious crime but those days are long gone. Cops don’t have the time or opportunity to make that difference anymore.

Look at how Scotland has radically reduced knife crime, immediacy, sentencing AND the causal effects, education, housing, employment, training etc
www.theguardian.com/membership/2017/dec/03/how-scotland-reduced-knife-deaths-among-young-people

You are just (or appear) advocating "knock em of their bikes the scum deserve it"