This is not my idea of a 10k holiday !

[Itwillgeteasieripromise]

Ex pats, heading home for Christmas after a tough year, not taken any leave really in 12 months and just finished an ivf cycle with one in the freezer for when we get back. We need a rest, DH and I are shattered.
I love my family dearly, but dear god the demands !!! Every day I'm literally sent a list of 'events' to attend, including helping my sister with her kids while she has to work late. Coming home is expensive, all
you seem to do is be expected to come to people because they are so busy with Christmas. Everyday day I'm literally sent a new invite, if it's not a birthday party, it's a school play ! It doesn't help that DH and I are from opposite ends of the country (and his family think I'm a spoiled bitch) If you think of what a holiday would look like if you spend 10k I can promise you, I wouldn't be rushing around like a headless chicken, spending it sat in people's living rooms seeing their kids and being an unpaid babysitter for family ! (Rant over) I am excited honestly, but it almost feels like an ex pat tax that you have to pay every couple of years .....

To add, we used to return in the summer. Never at Xmas. If folk wanted to come to us, fine, they were welcome and we had the space. Lovely in fact
After the first disastrous 'tour' when we learned our mistakes we took control and arranged a meet up at Kew with friends and babies and toddlers.
Perfect. And then we rented a holiday cottage in our home area so that folk could come to us and we could also do as we pleAsed. The reality was that they didn't drop by as much as they'd promised. Result!

Totally get it

Family overseas in NZ has to do this. None of us can afford to go over so haven't been. They can afford it but it's so much expense and energy regardless

Then everyone fights because they don't think they have allocated enough time and they had plans to do x y or z and they can't drag my NZ relatives off to whatever it is that they probably aren't that interested in being forced into

Then everyone fights with each other because this is more important than that

So basically they pay a fortune to have the joy of family rows and dramas and feel guilty should they heaven forbid decide to use a small portion of their holiday to do what they'd like

They also end up paying for others to join them in what they'd like as we can't afford it and of course take them up as you don't want to miss time with them if they're offering

Then they have to rent a car and drive miles

Honestly if I ever do get out there... I will tell them I'm happy to sit in their garden or just slot in around them. Whatever, it's on their terms.

I feel really bad for them each time they come. They shorten their visits each time and I'm hardly suprised. I can't imagine having 10k available to spend and using it for what they do.

I don't know why people don't just use Skype more and save visits for the things like weddings, funerals etc

"If your family are so shit, just don't go! "

Or a least only attend the activities that you want to with them!

And this is why I would never move to Australia or similar. Its so bloody far away and expensive to travel to/from, and if you are just travelling to see friends and family, it isn't really all that much different from being at home. So, like the OP, you end up spending tonnes of money just to do the things you would be doing at home.

My friend moved to Oz a couple of years ago and has been making loads of noises about why we haven't been to see her yet. She doesn't seem to understand that it's absolutely fucktonnes of money, to just go and stay with her in a Sydney suburb.

Both my siblings live abroad (they emigrated :-)). When they come back they always tack on a few days at least (and sometimes a week) as a holiday in another European country. I think that really helps them get a holiday as well as catch up with family.

I also think you would be perfectly reasonable to turn down some family invitations on the basis that you want to do xyz for a day or two - and it would be fine to use the fact that you're exhausted and drained from the ivf as an excuse if you feel you need one (book a couple of days away for example). I think what you're experiencing is part of the price you pay when you emigrate and is a common experience. It doesn't mean you don't love your family or don't want to see them as some posters have suggested.

Maybe you just need to learn how to say no sometimes, OP? That's a useful thing for life in general.

They're your family and friends! There should be no issue with saying "we can't see you that day, sorry" if you want some time off to relax.

I don't know why people don't just use Skype more and save visits for the things like weddings, funerals etc

My dad has made clear he would much rather his kids come see him when he's alive but doesn't expect them to come when he's dead. (I might feel differently if neither of my siblings came back but I can see his point of view).

I think if you only come home for weddings and funerals you might end up with a different type of connection to your family compared with turning up for more normal events.

@3timeslucky yeah to be fair it's my family I don't know why we don't just use Skype more and save on the dramas.

*Maybe you just need to learn how to say no sometimes, OP? That's a useful thing for life in general.

They're your family and friends! There should be no issue with saying "we can't see you that day, sorry" if you want some time off to relax.*

There really Should be no issues with saying no. In reality someone always has an issue though and finds a way to justify their issues

@thinkIwillexplode anything that avoids family drama is definitely worthwhile!!

Every day I'm literally sent a list of 'events' to attend, including helping my sister with her kids while she has to work late.

Well, fuck that for starters, obviously.

when people come to us we make it a holiday of a lifetime. Take them places, take time off work, travel ect ect So stop doing that. Don't put yourself out so much.

There really Should be no issues with saying no. In reality someone always has an issue though and finds a way to justify their issues

I suppose it depends on the family; threads like this make me thankful that mine are so relaxed and not interested in creating drama over nothing.

But anyway for those not so lucky, I guess part of the "learning to say no" actually means learning not to worry about some people making a fuss when you say no.

@thinkIwillexplode - you've explained it all perfectly. Except the Skype bit as my family would be annoyed if we didn't see them at all.

My DH's family live in England, and mine are in Ireland so when we come back we have to do two trips to see everyone and then everyone moans that we're not home long enough and they've barely seen us etc. we also fly parents out to see us once or twice a year but can't do that for all brothers and sisters.

I can't wait to move home tbh and then at least we have our own space instead of cramming into a tiny box room and living out of suitcases.

Also annoyed this year as my brother is refusing to come to various things as he's "too tired" - I just sent him our schedule and was like "suck it up". Feel like we always make a massive effort and have to fit in with everyone else who never seem to meet us in the middle ever.

This is why we don't go home at Christmas. We go on holiday instead. We went Sri Lanka last year and going to Cape Town this year. I only get a two week holiday at a Christmas and work all the way through from January to June without a break. I'm not trailing back to the dark damp freezing cold UK when I could be on a beach somewhere.

The idea of organising family gatherings will make it easier. One set of my GPs lived abroad and they used to do this. I am sure it made it easier for them. The downside is that I felt I never knew my GPs. Not only would I only see them once in a blue moon, but when I did there were lots of other family members and kids there so my interaction with my GPs face-to-face was probably a grand total of 5 minutes once a year.

In terms of people you are visiting not booking time off work - everyone has quieter times of year at work. My quiet times are during summer holidays. Booking time off before xmas can be very hard and very stressful as there will still be so much work to catch up on. You are choosing when suits you best. It may be a very difficult time for others.

And personally I have used plenty of annual leave to care for family and organise funerals of elderly relatives, while relatives abroad have not had to do this. I do actually understand as well about booking annual leave to sit in families living rooms. It does not cost me much, but I have to do this to visit some family members as both sides of our family that in Britain live at opposite ends of the country,

With the expat debate. Can only white people be expats. I have never anyone describe my family members who are not white as expats, even though in some cases they went abroad to work for fixed contracts.

We're heading home for Christmas for the first time in a while. We've just said that we're having a week to ourselves, then we'll do the visiting, but we're not going to see all and sundry, we're just doing one to each set of parents and we'd love to see anyone who's around..

Because I agree - at the beginning of the year we came over for a visit, and whilst it was lovely visiting everyone, the kids spent so much time in the car, and we were exhausted by the end of it and in need of an actual holiday.

I would also email them saying you have had a stressful year so please don't be relying on you for essential babysitting etc as you won't know if you will be able to. A trip with nieces out to do fun stuff sure on your terms, but not the boring day to day

I can easily see the 10K also if from the otherside of the world.

We are living overseas also. Flights back only cost us around £1000 for us all. But family have no space so a 2 week trip involves renting accommodation or hotels (3 different locations for us, including london), which over Christmas and new year is pricy regardless of location. Accomadation is £2000 min usually. Plus car hire, train travel etc . Extra eating out with family etc, visiting places with family. Theres not much change from £4-5k even from a European country

Another migrant family here. We live in Europe so don't spend anywhere near that much money, but I feel your pain. For us as well as flights there's the hire car, a hotel, a couple of nights in a cottage, etc etc, all so we can travel round the country with two travel-sickness prone kids to visit family and friends. We've had a couple of years when we were struck by the lurgy, and there's nothing worse than travelling with colds etc. Aaargh!

However, I think we're lucky in that practically everyone we're going to see does make a big effort to make our visit special. In fact we have a good time planning meetups in the lead-up to Christmas. For some reason we have loads of friends in one city in particular, so usually plan a gathering, usually a winter walk with lunch somewhere kid-friendly. Not all these friends see each other regularly either, some are travelling to meet up, and that's a nice feeling too - a big Christmassy get together.

If we meet friends in smaller groups it's usually around an activity, a walks, park, art gallery, museum, NT property with a nice café, country pub, so kids have fun and you do something memorable.

As for family, we make a lot of plans in advance too, and we're not shy about suggesting things we think would be fun and politely turning things down, if it sounds like too much, "that won't be possible," but we always try to suggest alternatives that we think everyone will enjoy.

For example, there's a lot of typically British stuff that we miss, and relatives back home often find it funny to do touristy things local to them which they wouldn't otherwise do, or find us a really good curry house, café for posh afternoon tea, pub, fish and chip shop etc. all stuff we find familiar and exotic at the same time.

You also have to remember that some of the people you're visiting will not see it from your perspective at all, you have to be proactive. For example we are now really clear with grandparents and uncles and aunts about presents - they often used to buy us big bulky things without a thought for how we'd transport them round the country or get them home - and sending them by parcel would end up being more expensive, in some cases, than the gift itself. We're not ungrateful! We always appreciate the thought! (although we wish great grandma wouldn't go overboard bulk-buying cheap kids' clothes, no need!) But now we check in advance what presents people want to buy, and suggest things the kids might want that are smaller and more manageable. Less is more anyway!

So on balance, despite the hassle and expense, I feel positive about going back. Some family visits over the last few years have been stressful and emotionally draining, but I think we're getting better at anticipating that and being firm about our plans.

Be proactive, be clear with people, make sure you have planned plenty of things that you genuinely look forward to doing and that will be happy memories. Get people out of their houses to do something special, if you can. Give yourself room for downtime. And good luck to everyone who's going back home this Christmas!

OP, Sorry you have had so many nasty responses. I don't know why people feel so compelled to be so unpleasant and snide . I'm sure it says more about them than anyone else.
It's as though no ones allowed a moan unless they fit certain criteria.

We were ex-pats for years and I understand what you are saying. I found it a bit annoying sometimes but I suspect I was better than you at saying no. I think it's easier to say no when you have kids - so hopefully, if the IVF goes well you have this as a little added benefit.

As for the term ex-pat . I think the proper definition is simply someone who lives in a different country from their own however we always used it as we were temporary residents employed 'from' the UK on temporary work contracts and temporary work visas. We didn't have a right to remain in any of the countries we lived in. Technically I don't think our use of the word was correct but it seemed like everyone else used it in the same way.

I am the person on the other end of this , but also grew up as ex pat so can see both sides. However I do get frustrated with my sibling who is abroad . We can’t seem to win , if we invite them to things we are apparently pressurising them and they ‘need time to themselves’ , alternatively we don’t invite them but then we get accused of not including them after they have ‘ ‘travelled all this way’ . Last time they came home they wanted to decide on where they went for Xmas on Xmas eve , because otherwise it’s not a holiday and they want to ‘ see how they feel’ .

Dreadful too that your family are suggesting you babysit for them when you come home
I'd certainly tell them that's not happening!

Are they specifically asking you to babysit or are they thinking that this is an opportunity for you to spend time with your nieces and nephews ? I do find it difficult because as I say I feel I need to invite my sibling to everything which is going on in order that they don’t feel excluded. To be frank I totally understand if they don’t want to come but I am afraid of hurting their feelings by not inviting them .

@EtVoilaBrexit it wasn't decorating per day but i had literally just had the builders finished while my dds were on holiday with their dad, so i wanted / needed to get it painted etc before the carpets went down the following day, all which had been planned for some time. I have a job which i struggle to get annual leave and often have days off cancelled, which she struggles to understand

I wouldn't expect my sister to change her plans if i went to visit, i would fit in with her. However, i really don't want to visit her for a few years as for the cost of the holiday its not worth it, i'd rather go halves on her tickets to come here

Isn't babysitting what aunties do for each other in normal families? Perhaps they thought you might enjoy getting to know your nephews/nieces? Perhaps your sister thinks 'Hallelujah, for once my Sis can help me out'?
Honestly, you sound as if simply by turning up you are doing everyone a massive favour.

Maybe it is in some (not mine though). And OP mentioned a gruelling IVF cycle too, so I think under the circs it's jolly cheeky to expect her to babysit