This is not my idea of a 10k holiday !

[Itwillgeteasieripromise]

Ex pats, heading home for Christmas after a tough year, not taken any leave really in 12 months and just finished an ivf cycle with one in the freezer for when we get back. We need a rest, DH and I are shattered.
I love my family dearly, but dear god the demands !!! Every day I'm literally sent a list of 'events' to attend, including helping my sister with her kids while she has to work late. Coming home is expensive, all
you seem to do is be expected to come to people because they are so busy with Christmas. Everyday day I'm literally sent a new invite, if it's not a birthday party, it's a school play ! It doesn't help that DH and I are from opposite ends of the country (and his family think I'm a spoiled bitch) If you think of what a holiday would look like if you spend 10k I can promise you, I wouldn't be rushing around like a headless chicken, spending it sat in people's living rooms seeing their kids and being an unpaid babysitter for family ! (Rant over) I am excited honestly, but it almost feels like an ex pat tax that you have to pay every couple of years .....

I'm very close to my family but I happened to meet and fall in love with someone from another country. So one of us has to live away from our family, and that sucks because we are both very close to them.

In other words, try to broaden your mind a little, Sb74

Dexy
Sounds like you’re trolling people on the internet, time to find something more fulfilling?
I Have tried to offer the OP a view from a different perspective, from the other side as an observer watching these things play out, watching the parents want the best for their daughter and hiding their heartbreak from her, then watching her heartbreak when one of them died and she hadn’t seen them for 18months. Also feeling the sibling relationship fall apart because her choice impacted on DH’s choices. Caring for his parent has meant huge sacrifice on our part, time money and emotion - we’ve had to offer it all. She would Skype in and talk at them once a week and feel like she was connected while they put on a brave face and pretended all was wonderful at home when it wasn’t but they didn’t want to upset her. My DH and I got the warts and all real world relationships that he wouldn’t swap for the world. Now he has no respect for her, he can’t understand how she could leave him to deal with everything.
Where this is related to the op’s Point is when she would ‘visit’ it was like the Queen was coming, huge effort also was put into ensuring she had a good time and saw everyone she wanted to see. So reading OP’s post irked me, and as my dh says, she was the one who fucked off so she’s the one who needs to put the effort in.
The wonderful thing about mn is that if you put a post like this up you will get opinions from lots of different perspectives, not just your own - that’s the point isn’t it?
As for being jealous, that’s hilarious. I have dual nationality and choose to stay close to my mum because she needs me now she is getting older, she really does.

Afraid I'm getting paid to be in bed at the moment. Nothing better to do with my days.

I don't think you sound jealous (and i certainly never said you were - did a previous poster?) you've made it very clear you feel morally superior and are very wealthy and have a big house... Presumably the implication of all that information is that we should all be jealous of you?

I'm glad we agree this forum is to bounce opinions around. That's exactly what i just said so thanks for echoing my previous sentiments.

Where we may differ is you might be saying it's fine to use your different view to smack down the OP. Not sure where you stand on that point.

I’m sharing my perspective based on recent experience
What are you doing?
Other than trying really hard to twist words in a spectacularly passive aggressive manner?

I think I’ve hit a nerve!

No shit. Because you implied that anyone who moved to a different country is selfish. What a shock that people didn't all rush to agree with you. And then you're calling other people trolls.

I'm defending the OP. She was being silly and needed a head wobble but didn't deserve to be told she was a callous person for abandoning her family. Really not the point of the thread. OP's situation does not sound comparable to yours, the one similarity / overlap (in your eyes) is that you feel OP and your SIL expect to have some metaphorical red carpet rolled out. I don't think that's what the OP was suggesting at all, i think she was overwhelmed by the plans her family had made for her, not underwhelmed. (and she deserved to be told she should try a different perspective and be grateful!)

You need to grind your axe with your SIL - not the OP.

Sorry for clarity the above is directed at @samfox

Ok I haven't read the full thread but don't understand why OP has bothered to come "home" if she doesn't want to see people. Is she going to be seeing the sights instead?

I think we all fully understand the perspective we just don’t agree with it. I’m not being nasty to the OP but to moan about seeing your family every 2 years is ridiculous. As it’s been pointed out she’s lucky to have all these people wanting to see her. I’m a very independent person and I’m certainly not jealous of people living abroad??!! I couldn’t think of anything worse than leaving my family behind especially my kids. It’s not boring and narrow minded to want to have a life that includes the people you love. You can have a fulfilled life without living in a different country. Those that keep harping on about spreading their wings etcetc are missing the point completely. People who choose to stay near their family do it because that makes them happy. It’s not out of obligation (maybe for some) it’s because they want their family in their life. It’s just about value systems. Some value their family life others value their freedom to do whatever makes them happy personally without much thought to others. That’s just people. I think the OP should just just count her blessings and stop moaning. I wish them good luck on the baby front though.

@Sb74 that (to me at least) is a completely valid and perfectly fair viewpoint but that's not what you said upthread, in fact it's quite far removed from your views upthread. You were pretty mean towards / dismissive of the OP (along with a few others) and that's what led me to get personally involved in the thread and defend OP.

I 100% agree with you that people have different sources of fulfilment and contentment and that's fine. Sometimes they might seem 'small minded' or 'selfish' to me or to you but we are all entitled to our views. What's not ok is trying to make a fairly innocent OP feel like a shit person for living her life differently. OP asked if she was being unreasonable for feeling overwhelmed and dreading her 'holiday' - she didn't ask whether she should have emigrated and so many comments were just gratuitous.

Sorry for rant!

I think we all fully understand the perspective we just don’t agree with it.

With the greatest of respect Sb74 you really can’t understand it if you haven’t been through it, as has been demonstrated on this thread.

sb who cares if you agree with it? No one's forcing you to move abroad, much as no one is forcing anyone overseas to stay home.

It's a moot point.

I don’t think it’s necessarily a case of expats vs home people - just a case of absence not necessarily making the heart grow fonder?( unless you’re some sentimental type).

It’s scary realising things and social connections aren’t permanent but it’s the way things are.

I like my current social life and the people in it, but if everyone in it emigrated for two years and we were only in contact by Skype etc then I’d fill my schedule up with other things and more physically convenient people? (who I could text and go “fancy a coffee on Wednesday”).

I did have some cross country pals from a city I used to live in (where we used to do a couple days visit every year ) but we drifted apart and it just seemed very intense and “forced intimacy” by the end.

I agree with the pp who said that often if you’re moving away it’s for a reason - and subconsciously that may be your life isn’t developing in the same direction as the people around you? So after a couple years away that distance just grows.

Visits just seemed to be very resource draining and disruptive and took up a lot of time and emotional energy and tbh I’d rather socialise down the road?

Or if I have a weekend away myself on a limited budget I’d like to pick where I go and have a nice hotel room and slouch in having lie-ins and go out for solo coffee at 1130am, not be in someone else’s spare room trying to adjust to their schedule.

Well, I have a brain and I have friends who live abroad so I think I do understand. I just have my own views. I fully understand what the OP is saying but having known 3 people, the youngest being 41, drop dead in the last month it kind of makes you see the world differently.

Your views are stupid

Well, I have a brain and I have friends who live abroad so I think I do understand

I have a brain and had several friends who have lived abroad and returned to the U.K. I talked to them all before moving to the USA for advice and their experiences. Moving abroad was still a shock.

Talking/reading about something is not the same as experiencing something Sb you are clearly an intelligent woman - you must recognise this?

I had lots of friends with babies, I still didn’t really understand what it was like to be a mother until I was one.

You can watch people ride a rollercoaster all day long - you still have no idea how it actually feels.

Sb74. Riddle me this. How do you move to be with your family when your family now resides in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand?

Or do you think all the children should have (unselfishly) stayed in New Zealand? Regardless of where THEIR partners and their families lived, where the work opportunities were, where the educational opportunities for their kids were, where the career progression and career security lay for their partners?

Maybe get a little bit real.

Some of us are very family focussed, but do realise there are many facets to consider when realistically deciding what to do and where to go, for your kids to have the best possible opportunities for education, work and life experience, not to mention lifestyle (and at different times in your childrens' lives, one factor may outweigh another), and to do your best to ensure that you can put a roof over your head and food on the table - and continue to do so into the future, including in retirement. And maybe (shock, horror) put a little bit of jam on the bread and butter.

Yes, my sister is the one who lives nearby my mother, so she's the one doing the day to day running around and making sure Mum's okay - and I make damned sure she knows I appreciate that. At the same time, she CHOSE to live there because she loves where she lives - and has at times made pretty huge financial/work opportunity sacrifices to do so. It suits her.

In turn, she appreciates that I ring Mum several times a week, to check in, chat, listen to her aches, pains, woes and neighbourhood and family gossip.

I've had two aunts die in the last year. It doesn't make me see things differently. They'd have died whether I was there or not. You can't live your life based on other people gonna die. It was certainly hard when our niece was diagnosed with terminal cancer when we were over here. That's why we flew back and made sure we had time with her before she passed, and that her uncle could go to her before she died and for the funeral. On the other hand, it was wonderful for our extended family over here that we were here when Grandad passed, and we could be there for support and the funeral, because the rest of the family now live in New Zealand. Where my inlaws went to live when husband was three, because of the opportunities in terms of lifestyle and career for both themselves and their children.

Firstly, not sure why my views are stupid. Ultimately I just think family and relations with family are important. Yes I do understand you have to experience something to appreciate it- whilst I’ve not lived abroad I’ve visited friends/family on trips myself in this country, doing the tour. I appreciate the situation and my point is just that if you only see your family every 2 years surely the least you can do is accommodate them? I realise it’s a bummer that that’s the only holiday someone might have but surely it’s important to keep that contact with your family. And family will get excited about that. But it’s life. We all make choices. So if you move abroad and want to see your family than I guess you sacrifice a proper holiday. But that is the persons choice. Many people don’t have family so we should all be thankful to have people that love us in our life and make the most of them. Don’t we all do things we don’t want to do for people we love?

my point is just that if you only see your family every 2 years surely the least you can do is accommodate them? I realise it’s a bummer that that’s the only holiday someone might have but surely it’s important to keep that contact with your family

I don’t disagree with that sentiment, and neither I’m sure does the OP.

She’s had a hard year Sb74 she’s just finished an unsuccessful IVF cycle, she hasn’t had any time off, she’s tired and stressed and emotional.

Re-read her first post. She was just venting, looking for a little sympathy and wee bit of advice.

Instead she’s had pages and pages of posters telling her she’s dreadful and uncaring, criticising her values and implying she doesn’t love her family. Ill informed, unhelpful, unkind and unnecessary.

OP Next time post in Living Overseas. We’ve got your back.

I think perhaps it's worthwhile realising your views may be limited by your lack of actual experience of being in that situation. Having friends who live abroad doesn't mean you understand.

It doesn't mean you understand how exhausting up to 30-40 hours travel (particularly on top of IVF), at the end of a very long year, over many different timezones, with at least one stop over to get through usually (and LAX just about had me needing therapy), into the opposite season, straight into full on festivities and family function after family function can be.

It is wonderful to see family, and for them to want to see you, but if they don't have an understanding of what the above is like, sometimes the expectation that you hit the ground running, and up for day after day, night after night, of socialising with friends and family can be a bit hard to live up to! And they tend to want you to see everyone, even Aunty Martha who hates you, and you hate them, because you only come over every so often, and she might not be here next time you come dear. . .

Then there is the guilt. The guilt you feel at living so far away, for whatever reason, sometimes the resentment from family members still there, who see you as the golden child who thinks they are better (whether you do or not) just cos you live elsewhere. The fear that yes, this could be the last time you see X, Y or Z - because you don't know what's around the corner. That's an awful lot of emotional work you're doing.

So no, it's not a holiday. Yes, you want to do it, because you love your family, but it does leave you emotionally and physically shattered. And if you were already pretty damned shattered in the first place. . .

That’s a very good explanation Mbosnz to which I would had, however much you see everyone when you are home it’s never enough.

Regardless of how carefully you plan it out (and we have a spreadsheet) there’s always a family member or friend who is upset and texting you asking for more time.

It’s lovely to see everyone but it’s also tiring, stressful and an emotional minefield.

On top of an ivf cycle? The OP is surely deserving of some sympathy and kindness before she grits her teeth and gets on with it.

(And I’ve had IVF, so I know what it’s like)

My parents lived in several countries and now live in one part of the UK when they're from another. Grandparents the same. Aunts and uncles moved around and several either now live overseas or did. Cousins lived away and also married people from other countries.

But I'm supposed to live 20 minutes from the crappy place my parents finally settled to prove I'm family oriented? Even though my DH is from thousands of miles away and would therefore be away from his...

Pretty much no one in my family lives near where they were born. It doesn't cross our minds to criticize people with four generations in one street, although it makes me twitchy to think about it. Me doing the exact same thing my parents did seems family oriented to me.

@pallisers, I strongly disagree.
Here is my example:
immigrant - a Polish plumber living in the UK, planning to go home back to Poland after five years.
ex-pat - British pensioner in France, planning to spend the rest of their lives there.

Presumably OP you chose to move to the other side of the world, for reasons that would benefit you. Most people don't even consider emigrating because they wouldn't or couldn't be that far from their families. If you make that choice then surely if you want to see family you suck up the cost and the fact that it's not a relaxing holiday.

Well I'll be sitting on my own thinking of far away folks ☹️