This is not my idea of a 10k holiday !

[Itwillgeteasieripromise]

Ex pats, heading home for Christmas after a tough year, not taken any leave really in 12 months and just finished an ivf cycle with one in the freezer for when we get back. We need a rest, DH and I are shattered.
I love my family dearly, but dear god the demands !!! Every day I'm literally sent a list of 'events' to attend, including helping my sister with her kids while she has to work late. Coming home is expensive, all
you seem to do is be expected to come to people because they are so busy with Christmas. Everyday day I'm literally sent a new invite, if it's not a birthday party, it's a school play ! It doesn't help that DH and I are from opposite ends of the country (and his family think I'm a spoiled bitch) If you think of what a holiday would look like if you spend 10k I can promise you, I wouldn't be rushing around like a headless chicken, spending it sat in people's living rooms seeing their kids and being an unpaid babysitter for family ! (Rant over) I am excited honestly, but it almost feels like an ex pat tax that you have to pay every couple of years .....

OP, you'll find the received wisdom from many on MN is that if you move abroad, you owe family/friends forever. You moved, your problem.

@echt nails it here. It's a mixture of jealousy, and the feeling that you are selfish for leaving to pursue a new lifestyle, opportunities etc. I think in my experience people feel you've become a bit "above yourself".

And people really don't understand how draining it can be to sit for 6 hours in three different aunties houses listening to all the illnesses, scandals and general misery of people you can't remember or will never meet in one sitting. As no one seems to want to share anything uplifting in my family, or ask how your life is going, because well, you moved, so your divorce, job loss, stress etc is your own fault isn't it? 😕

I just get frustrated that when people come to us we take annual leave and take them to lovely places, but when we come back home with our small children close family will make no effort at all, my brother couldn't meet us last time as he had golf on the day we where in their area, he plays good several times a month it would not have killed him to miss it for one week

Oh and we several months notice so people knew we where coming.

well if they didnt invite you left you sat at home alone that would be wrong they probably think youd like to see relatives and be part of the festive activities

I get what you're saying OP. We lived OS for six years and I'd come back here typically twice a year - summer and winter - while family members would come and visit us in between. Our visits home were always at the expensive times of year and we'd be travelling hither and yon to see my family (rural England), and our friends (mostly in/around London). Everyone wanted to see us, no one wanted to take time off work, so it was lots of quick lunches and coffees or evenings out - we were always utterly exhausted by the time we flew back. It was necessary though and now that we've moved home I'm glad we made the effort to come back regularly and spend time with the family members who couldn't really travel to us.

for your IVF disappointment and good luck in the new year - hope you get the outcome you want.

Why don’t you split the visit? You keep to your friends and family and send your dh to see his own(if they think you’re a princess it won’t be a problem)

Tbh what worked really well for us is to meet half way.
That way everyone is in holiday mode and it’s much relaxing for everyone. No rushing around etc...

I think you're getting a really hard time here OP. We're expats and I completely understand the costs and efforts involved in coming home for Christmas. I don't even want to think about how much it all costs in total as it will depress me. As you've seen from this thread, people who have never lived abroad have no real idea of the costs and just don't get it.

Anyway - here's my tips. Value your time. We had DD this year and brought her back to meet family in the summer and it was the most stressful week. We spent absolutely zero time on our own with our new daughter and we're pulled from pillar to post. So for xmas I've said no, and we've blocked some days out just for us. Keeps me sane.

It might seem odd to come home and then want some time to ourselves too but what people don't appreciate is that we have used annual leave for the trip and then spend the rest of the year working so I think it's fine to have some time for us too.

Learn to say no a little OP. You'll be better off for it. And Merry Christmas.

^What's the difference between an expat and an immigrant?

Prejudice. HTH.^

Nope. You’re an expat if you’ve been expatriated - sent to another country by the company you work for, for a limited period of time.

If you get a permanent job in another country, you are an immigrant. Also if you retire to Spain from the U.K. you are an immigrant - I think it’s the misnaming of the retirees on the Costa del Sol which confuses the issue.

I just flew back to my home country/home town. I did it because I wanted to see my ailing father one last time while he could still enjoy it.

I was pretty careful to keep my time under my own control. I stayed in a hotel and I avoided huge commitments. Luckily the furthest I was asked to travel was to the other side of town. My best friend took a day off work for me. I really can't complain about anyone, with the exception of my brother who met me for lunch and then didn't communicate with me again, despite my hotel being a short walk from his flat. This is probably because he's become an alcoholic, and he's also aspergers.

I still ended up exhausted and somewhat miserable. I spent my last evening sobbing in my hotel room. To see my childhood home in a different light (it's now a foreign country), to see the physical decline of my loved ones, to see my brother toothless and dishevelled... it was emotionally stressful.

I notice that none of the other expats/immigrants have a problem with the OP.

OP I think you have been given a really hard time by some posters. I guess they have never been expats

I completely get what you are saying. We go 'home' for Christmas. We visit both sets of parents at either end of the country. We spend days in the car. Packing and unpacking it, sleeping on sofas and blow up beds, waiting for people who have known for months we are coming to call us back because yes they know we are meeting up today but they are Super busy and not sure what time they are free.

I love my family and friends and value the time I get with them at Christmas but it's definitely no holiday. Every year we swear it will be the last but here we are again as the alternative is not seeing them

I hear ya' OP.

Exactly the same - for over a decade I never had a relaxing holiday as I prioritised going back. Looking back it was such a ridiculous thing to do. My family never took holiday time when we were there - despite constantly asking us to come, they then just squeezed us in around their lives.

Stopped going now that the kids are older. Maintaining a relationship can't all be a one way street, also, frankly I want to see other places and actually have a relaxing holiday.

"Take them places, take time off work, travel ect ect. "

That's the difference though with you being in the "different" place though.

When you go back to visit, you can just take yourself to places as you know where it all is!

Who do you think should be taking time off to see you when you visit?

Does it not work to do what you want in the day & see people at weekends/evenings?

What people who've never lived overseas don't get is the sheer intensity of a home visit. It can be absolutely wonderful BUT it's very exhausting. Everyone is trying to pack at least a year's worth of gossip, news, important information about kids, health, homes, politics, relationships, and the trivial - latest Netflix obsession, books etc into the space of a few days. What might have been a conversation over weeks or months MUST take place on a Sunday between 3-4pm or you'll never talk about it.

Also, you want to have times where you're not talking about anything important and you're just relaxing together and these are few and far between and must somehow be scheduled in case they never happen. My MIL was a big Oprah fan, and though I never shared her enthusiasm, she would close the door, shut her phone off, make us a Bloody Mary and insist I put my feet up so we could just watch TV together. She understood all the running around, while delightful, takes it out of a person.

OP, I think people simply don't get it and are being incredibly mean. As PP have suggested, 1) don't think of it as a holiday 2) carve out some time (schedule it) for you and DH to do something (or nothing) that would give you pleasure, and 3) it really is okay to decline an invite, especially if you say to that person "I'd really rather do something low-key with you".

Wishing you all the best for IVF

my sister emigrated and when she visits and stays with my mum she literally expects a ticker tape parade on her return. She expects us to take leave to see her etc etc, it's only since she's had children she understands it's not easy to change the routine and miss commitments. I was in the middle of getting my house renovated and she took umbridge that o had to decorate

OP i'd literally say no to the things you don't want to do and try to see people all together.

1more does it mean that if you go to see your sister, you

• don’t expect her to change ANY of her commitments or routine
• don’t expect her to take some time off to spend time with you (I’m assuming you would go there to see her mainly, not as a touristic place of course)
• don’t expect her to make a big thing about your trip to see her.
• Even if it means ravelling half way round the globe
• And it’s your one holiday in the year that is costing you a fortune?

Imo it goes both ways.
You can’t expect family to welcome you with arms wide open, take time off etc etc if you visit and the refuse ontake one day of decorating your house. Unless of course you consider your house been a higher priority than your dsis.

Maybe it would be cheaper to give some money to your immediate family to help with their flight costs to see you instead?

diddl well if you were going to see someone abroad, that wouldn’t a different place to them. So why should they make any effort to see you, to take time with you or make any effort at all?? I mean they have a life and can’t just out everything in hold just for you!!

I mean in these day ind age, you find out where and what to visit at the end of your finger tips. You have google everywhere you go and you still have tourist information centres too.

Or does that sounds all wrong because you made the effort to see THEM and they seem to be making no effort at all to see you??

We lived away for years and it was exactly as you described without the additional stress of IVF. We would spend loads of nights sleeping on sofa beds, futons etc so would spend on a hotel to get a decent night's sleep and then offend people by doing this. We were constantly buying gifts for hosts and taking people out for meals when it would have been far cheaper to have booked hotels in the first place. We loved our family but people didn't quite get that we were using between 2 and 3 weeks of our annual leave in order to do this.

" I mean they have a life and can’t just out everything in hold just for you!!"

Exactly.

I'd be happy enough to do my own thing & see them when they were available.

We can't afford to visit my sibling who lives overseas, but last year I took a whole week off work to see them when they were over here, this year I took DC out of school, took annual leave, and both times we travelled a 10 hour round trip with two young children who hate the car to see them so they didn't have to come to see us.

Maybe that's why I have little sympathy for your plight OP. It's not exactly a holiday for us either. Count yourself lucky you can afford 10K (and 4K of that on meals out and the odd nice hotel, that's hardly slumming it)

If you've lived away you understand

I'm an immigrant and I understand that it's kind of annoying spending so much money not to go somewhere new (I miss going to countries I've never been to before), but I don't understand the resentment of your friends and family. The whole reason I go back is to see them and I'm happy if they all want to make plans!

OP, you'll find the received wisdom from many on MN is that if you move abroad, you owe family/friends forever.

I'm just amazed people are so jaded, although that is kind of mumnset's thing I suppose.

You don't "owe" your family, you go back to visit because you miss them! If your family are so shit, just don't go! It's not complex.

I remember this from my expat days. It was frustrating because "going home" was expensive and usually came as an alternative to having an actual holiday. I think it's one thing going to see relatives but being an unpaid babysitter is a bit much. Could you perhaps take the lead a bit more next time you visit. For example I'm coming back for one week these are the days I'm available how about we all meet up here on X day??

echt nails it here. It's a mixture of jealousy, and the feeling that you are selfish for leaving to pursue a new lifestyle, opportunities etc. I think in my experience people feel you've become a bit "above yourself".

Still reading through the thread and wow, maybe you lot are just jaded because your friends and family are mostly dicks.