To be angry and feel the Scottish Gov’s Twitter header is an attack on women?

[Badmoonsarising]

i’d like them to clarify exactly what their definition of “transphobic” is because it seems to have become a slur these days often aimed at anyone but mostly women who are critical of or question in any way the recent upsurge of identity politics. I just feel they’re doing a knee jerk, ignorant, unnecessary huge fuck you to women.

Because if it exists in me, a biological woman, it could legitimately reside in males too.
So why write off transwomen and say you're only your biology?
Both biology and self (not feelz) are a thing.
Some have the biology, not the self, as you say.
Stands to reason some could have the self but not the biology if it is indeed a thing.
Which it is for me.
If you don't match up, if it's a thing and you're in the wrong body (NOT feelz) - well, couldn't begin to imagine.

You saying that the defining factor in the concept of a woman is a sense of self, is directly undermining the reason why women have their own rights.

Nowhere have I said it's the defining factor in the concept of being a woman.
I said it is part of being a woman, some of us have an experience of woman more than we are are just our biology.

But if a sense of self is only part of being a woman and only some women have it, it can't be a defining factor. Like long hair. Some women have it, but it's not a defining factor.

Fine, let's just say it's not a thing then.
It's not a factor.
Ergo, no transwomen, 'cos men as don't have bits too and of course it's all about the bits and nothing else.
Except no, as I'm not excluding them. Others don't too.
As I said before, it comes down to you're your biology and nothing else with some posters.
Got sucked in again. Clearly need to write my lines of "I am just biology to be a proper woman" a few more times.

Verbeena, you feel you are the same as transwomen because you share the same sense of self.

Which is great. You are happy sharing spaces with them, great.

So why not campaign for spaces for people, like you and transwomen, with that sense of self?

Really, really, not trying to be PA.

So why not campaign for spaces for people, like you and transwomen, with that sense of self?

Because I'm a woman too and I don't think we should say "bog off, get your own space transwomen, you''re not one of us."
BOTH sense of self as a female and biology is a thing.
"You're not my type of woman, go away." Might be the stance for some on here but it's not for others.

Nobody is writing them off. We are saying that they do not meet the definition of “Woman”

YOUR definition and experience of being a woman.

• in one breath you say nobody is writing them off then in the next one saying they do not meet the definition of woman. Unspoken there being ergo always male, 'cos women only biology.

Even if bio women say that to them there's something else too.
It's not a thing in your world.
Dismissing my experiences too.
Maybe I'm not a proper woman then as there's something else for me too.
As I said, need to remember I'm only my biology.

Well this has all become unsurprisingly familiar. Woman = biology, identity = personality, trans woman = man. Anyone with half a brain can spot an overly simplistic and reductive world view when they see one.

The original AIBU was the OP being horribly offended when the Scottish Government dared to denounce transphobia. As far as I can see this is because she was convinced the "transphobe" in question was in fact someone like her, despite her being quite, quite sure that nothing she ever says or does is transphobic.

And somehow this thread is about whether Verbeena's sense of self contributes to her womanhood or not. I mean it's just so far batshit, I can't even... So maybe that Twitter headline IS a passive aggressive dig at all women everywhere, but it all hinges on whether or not a 13 year old should have a double mastectomy!

Im always intruiged by the end goal of these arguments.

When all sex segregation is removed, when woman means the way someone presents, when female represenation is done by males, well what then?

Why do any women think that will work well for them?

RatRolyPoly!!! it's Groundhog Day!
Bloody thread wasn't about define womannnnnn in the first place as you say, but it always descends!

I mean it's just so far batshit, I can't even.......

Absofuckinlootely lol.

Why do any women think that will work well for them?

Because we don't over inflate every possible negative and catastrophise the outcome way outside the bounds of likelihood.

It's called realism.

Try it, you'll feel much better about things.

So maybe that Twitter headline IS a passive aggressive dig at all women everywhere, but it all hinges on whether or not a 13 year old should have a double mastectomy!

Then we're apparently the ones being all headfuckery, even though there's some serious one track tangents off on one, everywherrrre from others

Because we don't over inflate every possible negative and catastrophise the outcome way outside the bounds of likelihood

YY

Realism?

Women (all of whom are identified by sex) are still being stoned to death, having their genitals brutally mutilated, raped, murdered, all because of their biological sex.

Id love to see you explain your realism to a woman dying in a menstrual hut and explain how its just her sense of self that means shes suffering.

We haven't been called a man yet, that's a small mercy.
Was it with you that we were saying what do we have to do, upload fanny pics? I lose track lol. Think it was you. That was a thread and a half

Sorry, crossposted with hyppolyta. She's by the posts presumably a proper woman womanning properly, I was referring to @RatRolyPoly

Verbeena your crosspost with Hyppolyta leaves an unpleasant impression of which kind of woman you seem to really care about.

and explain how its just her sense of self that means shes suffering

How, has anyone, ANYWHERE said it's just a sense of self? How does your head get there?

So now women who accept transwomen means that not only do they not think women should be having the vote (as that's one of the arguments apparently used when it came to the vote) now they don't care about women bleeding to death in huts,
Just.... wow. OK.

Transwomen aren't taking away the rights for women to be treated if they're bleeding to death in huts.
Biological medical aid for women is a thing too.

When females are locked in with a male rapist, we have no need to catastrophise anything.

The catastrophy has happened. Repeatedly.

Ask the females who have been assaulted by males in female prisons.

The catastrophy happened. Now do we ignore it, or prevent it happening again?

Verbeena, but do you understand that if you can't identify the category of woman based on biology, you can't give them rights. You can't use sex as a discriminatory factor, if anyone can be any sex.

Yes, it is funny how it all comes down to the definition of woman. On the one hand Rat and Verbeena who say it is biology and feeling ( even though I struggle with how a man knows what it feels like to be a woman, how can he?) and in the other hand women who want to keep the word women to be restricted to the current biological definition because it provides them with certain rights.

I think no one is saying a woman is only biology, but that biology makes up the core of the definition of woman. In law this needs to outwardly verifiable and clear. So no swearing or declarations because this brings us back to the murky waters. And intersex is just an argument to muddle people, intersex doesn't work like that, there is no third sex.

Back to the header, I can see where the OP is coming from. I think having short banners like this is a stupid idea as they can be misinterpreted. And timing is stupid too. I just don't credit the scottish government with a lot of brainpower and don't think it was intentional against women. Leaving out misogyny however, that shows their true colours. If you live in Scotland, I can see how that would worry you.