to think that all GP's (Doctors) work part-time?

[popcornwizard]

Based on my tiny personal knowledge of 4 GP's that are friends, and a couple of others that are friends of friends etc, I'm coming to the conclusion that they all work part-time hours. Is this real? Or is it just the ones that I know. I have no idea whether any of the GP's at 'my' practice work full-time or not, but at least 3 of them work only two days/week.

So AIBU to think that they're a bunch of part-timers? And what causes this? Stress or lucrative locum contracts?

@saltpans

1. Keep not voting Tory
2. Set the record straight when people to try blame 'those slacking GPs', 'all those immigrants', 'benefits cheats' etc etc etc (not just about healthcare but more generally)
3. Push for proportional representation (it's a shame the referendum on this a few years back was not successful)

Re pensions and GPs being self employed. That is the source of a lot of the current problems. They are in a strange hybrid where they get all the risks of self-employment (long hours, liability, uncertain income) but few of the perks (make your own hours, choose your customers, choose services to provide)

The pension situation is another example. Part of a defined benefit pension with contributions skewed in favour of lower paid members and which doesn't lend itself to flexibility in career structure. Also on reading looks like you have to put all income within its wrapper if you opt in. Truly self-employed often use pensions to flex income and related tax liabilities. They also benefit from the new pension reforms.

The system also looks unfair atm as it looks like the changes to GP contracts were negotiated with GP incumbents to the detriment of new entrants.

Even the Daily Mail in an article about a small group of GPs on mega mega salaries because of partnerships in multiple practices says that the average GP salary is £90k

So a part time GP working 3 days a week (approx 40 hours) would earn £72k. Take off indemnity of £10k and that's £62k. That's still a very good salary - but I wouldn't personally say that was 'overpaid' for a very stressful occupation involving life or death decisions and high levels of debt and professional training (as some people have referred to GP salaries)

Or howabou, the other way round - guaranteed customer base! I set up on my own (not a doctor) with no customers at all and ever month I might have none. GPs are not exactly in that position and GPs have access to the NHS doctor pension scheme which is more than I have (which is zilch of that kind). GPs could also at least in Lnodon be private GPs if they chose if they did not like the guaranteed customer base etc.

Agreed Xenia but there is undeniably a price to accepting the NHS shilling.

All the GPs both male and female in the practice I use work part-time, all 5. There is usually one locum full time. YABU.

My dad is a GP.

He works full time and I can absolutely see why GPs choose to work part time.

My dad is at work for 7:30am. I call him a couple of evenings a week. He's usually still at work at 8pm. The paperwork is unreal...

I WISH he would go part time. If my partner was a GP I would also likely end up putting pressure on him to work PT as otherwise a family life is just not sustainable.

Part time for a GP is absolutely what full time looks like for the rest of us...

Not all of the rest of us. I am a full time self employed professional and I work your father's hours if not more, but without the state handing me a guaranteed client base so I have constantly to have to spend additional time marketing etc.

GPs who are partners/sole traders / own their own company in my view however should be allowed to work as they choose - one day a week, full time or whatever and I presume the rules mean you have to be open a certain number of hours. Ours is open 365 days a year actually a lthough I've been to the GP once in 12 years as never seem to get ill, so feel like as someone who pays heaps of tax I am due a huge tax rebate for that!

@Xenia and do you provide your clients with as much of your time as they want for £120 per year? I doubt that would buy an hour of your time yet it is what GPs get per patient per year.

I could buy a pretty good pension with what I'm guessing your hourly rate is.

I am the wrong person to mention that to as my doctor over 12 years will have had £1440 for me and I had one 10 min appointment in that period. none of my clients whom I have not advised ever over 12 years has paid me £1440.

@Xenia that's irrelevant. It costs so much more to actually provide care for a patient than £120 per year that the only way surgeries can even vaguely function financially is to have lots of fit healthy people registered who never come. The issue of young fit people being cherry picked by private services and de-registering threatens to destabilise GP.

How many multiples of £120 do you think it costs to care for a frail elderly person who is seen in the surgery most weeks? Or is visited at home? Or a 'frequent flyer' - we have patients who ring us several times a week.

Someone upthread mentioned us being paid per appointment/per activity. GPs would absolutely love that but it would bankrupt the NHS very rapidly if we actually got paid for what we do.

@Xenia - you simply don't get it.

For every patient who comes in once every 2 years there are at least 5 patients that come in EVERY week or at best monthly. Have you not read about the mental health crisis and social care crisis.

And, we only get £87.92 per patient in the core contract in the region I work.

Any funding above that means having staff in at 7am and until 8pm and working Saturdays and Sundays and the latest request is Xmas day and Boxing day.

I have been verbally abused this week on 2 occasions as have my team members. We are at risk of physical violence from those with mental health and addiction issues on a DAILY basis. We have patients who demand to be seen the same day as they would have in their country of origin - in their country of origin they had to pay but they expect and DEMAND the same here for free. Literally, had a patient today who had a cold and aggressively demanded GP as they were entitled to it as they paid their taxes.

When the digital providers sign up all the healthy patients who see them infrequently the digital provider gets the money for not seeing them and does not have to see the complex cases with multiple co-morbidities and frailty.

This means GPs are left with less income to see the more complex cases without the funding to actually provide the staff to see them.

Sound attractive? If it's so wonderful and everyone is rolling in the cash why do newly qualified doctors choose to NOT be GPs???

OP Your second paragraph consists of three questions. You have, I assume, asked these questions of your 'four close friends'. Do share their replies with us!

My sister is a GP. She works five sessions a week - all mornings - and has done since she had kids.

It’s worth noting though that given the amount of paperwork she has to get done outside of her contracted hours, working mornings means she actually leaves at 4pm.

If she was full time she’d be leaving at 8-9pm and it would be impossible for her ever to see her family.

@SheCameFromGreeceSheHadaThirst what you said x100.
OP I can just imagine you pouring yourself another large drink with glee that you got exactly what you wanted from this thread. Give yourself a large pat on the back.

My GP surgery has 3 female GPs all of family raising age. They are all Full Time.

I was doing some ballpark calculations on how many GP appointments £120 would afford me. Reckon it would be about 3 a year, and since I have had less than 5 in the last 40 years I have a fair few in the bank for my old age. The unfortunate thing would be if I retired away from the Big City in my old age and another practice has to pick up the tab.

Sorry, I do appreciate loads of people are constantly at the GP. I just feel I pay heaps and heaps of tax and seem to get so very little back for it although I am very very glad I have not even had a cold in the last 2 years and it is very rare for women in their 50s to be as healthy (touch wood) as I am. I kow we don't have direct pay in and direct pay out although my state pension having paid NI continuously full time since 1983 should (fingres crossed) entitle me to some kind of taxed state pension at age 67 which might pay my council tax bill. (I will work full time until I die)

All the GPs at my local practice are part time and all are women.

Thanks, @Xenia :)

I think everyone is not having a great time. All of our staff have decided to not send Xmas cards or do Secret Santa this year. We are in a deprived area and we are going to give all of the money we would have spent into a collection and do a massive food shop for the local food bank.

It's such a sad state of affairs that so many people are living in poverty and are relying on the charity of others.

@Xenia and be careful about saying that outloud. I no doubt was in a similar position to you. Pretty healthy not at the GP much and likewise my son. Then sudden onset (for not obvious reason) of a life threatenig auto-immune disorder and I collected all my contribution to the NHS and more very quickly. Hospital stay, extensive and expensive treatents and tests and continuous monitoring and follow up for 5 yers after. It also left me with needing iron infusions (inpatient) about annually and B12 injections 3 monthly.

And it was something that no-one in their right mind aould have gone privately for - emergency admission, highly motivated registrars contacting world reknowned experts to discuss me and develop a plan.

I was both very lucky and very fortunate to have had the NHS. A nice single room with better food privately would have been no consolatoin to me in the morgue at all.

KC, I am very sorry and yes i could get ill. I have been very lucky so far.

I do find it annoying that I pay so very very much tax and yet it just seems to be wasted left right and centre on all kinds of things. If we could get tax rates?NI down say to 33.3% or 20% for all it might incentivise some of us to earn more and thus pay more tax into the NHS.

I do find it annoying that I pay so very very much tax and yet it just seems to be wasted left right and centre on all kinds of things.

completely agree. all management consultants should be banned from the NHS, as should overpaid chief executives and constant reshuffles from PCTs to CCGs etc. You could lose half the admin people in the NHS (not the secretaries and ward staff, the vast numbers at CCG level) and you wouldn't notice. The internal market is vastly wasteful and a pointless waste of time when it is all essentially taxpayers money.

OP Your second paragraph consists of three questions. You have, I assume, asked these questions of your 'four close friends'. Do share their replies with us!

Of course I haven't asked my friends (would only class one as close, but seems you've upgraded the other 3 ) - I know that they're part-timers. I also know why but I'm sure that you're not really asking for their personal circumstances. I wanted to know if it was typical, have you read the thread?

OP - Yes I have read the thread. Not sure how I got the idea your GP friends were close.
I don't get it, however. I really am surprised you haven't asked the three questions at the end of your OP of the people you know IRL. I was indeed wondering about their personal circumstances.