to think that all GP's (Doctors) work part-time?

[popcornwizard]

Based on my tiny personal knowledge of 4 GP's that are friends, and a couple of others that are friends of friends etc, I'm coming to the conclusion that they all work part-time hours. Is this real? Or is it just the ones that I know. I have no idea whether any of the GP's at 'my' practice work full-time or not, but at least 3 of them work only two days/week.

So AIBU to think that they're a bunch of part-timers? And what causes this? Stress or lucrative locum contracts?

I would simply train more doctors. There isn't a shortage of highly intelligent students wanting to train as doctors.

We just need more training places in universities and hospitals to increase the number of entrants. At the moment, it's highly competitive and places are very limited. There's no shortage of students wanting a place. Shame that successive governments havn't massively increased medical school places and that the medical unions/professional bodies have in the past been against increasing such places!

An alternative would be to change the training process for GPs to make the training quicker, i.e. by training specifically for the role of GP and not including months/years of training etc in different specialisms along the way. Just do training/teaching in being a GP from day 1, i.e. no surgery work, no specialisms, no work experience in other depts - just a combination of uni for the theory along with work experience in GP practices etc which would probably knock a few years off the training.

GP training is already too short. They are expected to know about EVERYTHING!

You want entry to be less competitive? So, you want standards lowered?

That's fine- you can see someone not up to the grade, quickly trained if you want. I'd rather see someone highly qualified and experienced myself, who isn't burned out. I care about my health, and who treats me!

You want entry to be less competitive? So, you want standards lowered?

No, plenty of people make the grade but don't achieve a place because there are too many applicants for the limited places available. You can keep the same entry requirements so no loss of quality. I don't know of any medical schools which are undersubscribed, but have seen figures of some having 3 times the number of applicants with the right qualifications chasing the few places they had available.

An alternative would be to change the training process for GPs to make the training quicker, i.e. by training specifically for the role of GP and not including months/years of training etc in different specialisms along the way. Just do training/teaching in being a GP from day 1, i.e. no surgery work, no specialisms, no work experience in other depts - just a combination of uni for the theory along with work experience in GP practices etc which would probably knock a few years off the training

This is very simplistic thinking and would not work very well in practice.

My wonderful cousin is a GP trainee- she went into medicine as an older trainee and so had her children as a foundation trainee (i.e. the first 2 years of medical training AFTER you have completed 5 or 6 years at medical school)

So she has worked 'part-time' (shock horror) pretty much her entire career.

As a consequence, she has worked in many specialties and so has gained a very broad range of experience, more so than a full time trainee who has moved through the system without any time out.
But she is very happy about this as it all adds to her knowledge as a future GP.
As for falling behind her colleagues/cohort, she really is not bothered as this gives her the work-life balance she needs for her family.

A point about being 'part-time'. When my cousin worked in a busy London hospital as a 'part-time trainee', there were weeks when she worked in excess of 60+ hours as she was on-call during the week and into the weekend.

Compare that with the average hours that a PT employee would do in many other job roles- there is no comparison. She worked more hours than a full timer in another kind of job/industry!

Plus, that monthly pay quoted by the doctor upthread earlier this morning, that is quite accurate. Doctors are definitely NOT rolling in cash when it comes to pay day!

OP- thank you for starting this thread.

It may not have been your intention, but it really very perfectly illustrates how utterly ignorant many people are when it comes to the reality of doctors work conditions/pay/stresses that are involved.

This is a corker of an idea....

1. Take a a complex job
2. Add an element of risk that may result in death or long tern serious consequence
3. Train staff over many years
4. Subject them to rigorous exams, which they have to pay for themselves
5. Burden them with several thousand pounds of debt
6. Over work the staff without additional payment for the extra hours
7. Limit/remove potential work-life balance
8. Ensure there is limited down-time
9. Ensure they can not leave the job for 'x' number of years/ever

10. If they wish to move abroad/change career/cut back due to life circumstances then all costs involved in their training must be paid back to the tax-payer 11. Cut pay to fund extra staff 12. Delay retirement

Then sit back and watch the highly intelligent students queue up in droves to train in for this job... now, I wonder why no-one else has thought of this before?

Unfortunately, points 1-6 already happen and point 11 happens in the form of below inflation pay rises (but not to fund extra staff).
As a result, we are now at a stage that we do not have enough doctors entering specialties such as general practice, A&E, paediatrics and obstetrics & gynaecology. Per capita, the UK has fewer doctors across several specialties than many comparable nations.

my sister is a gp. she does indeed do part time. However she works 12 hours days 3 days a week and spends one day teaching so it's still more than I do whilst I'm fill time!

noworklifebalance,

6,7,8,11 and 12 are issues now faced by young doctors I guess.

Of course, we "see" the doctors retiring at 55 with final salary pensions who didn't deal with those numbered items.

My neighbours are doctors and they are rich, Rich in the sense of skiing, exotic holidays, owning extra houses they don't live in, buying cars they don't need. They are in their 50s. They have no concept of what financial insecurity or lack of work means.

Maybe the doctors in their 20s will never have that and the public don't see that because we see the doctors who are retiring now?

I don't know.

I am a gp who apparently is only part time! I work 38 hrs a week. We may be part time at the surgery but often doing other work eg teaching, CCG work etc. I also have a family who I like to see. Think about what you say before putting stupid comments

I did some voluntary work in a hospital, sending letters every week to dozens of patients who had complained about the wait they were having to endure to see a consultant. When my OH attended the local private hospital I saw permanent name plates on several consulting room doors, and one for the specialist that I was working for two afternoons a week at the local general hospital. His letters to patients said he had a huge workload and long waiting list as a result. It seemed he spent three afternoons and two evenings a week working privately. Not sure how this tied in with his full time NHS salary....

Maybe the doctors in their 20s will never have that and the public don't see that because we see the doctors who are retiring now?

water I posted this yesterday,

Workload in general practice has risen by at least 16% over the last seven years, but the proportion of NHS spending on general practice remains lower than a decade ago and GP numbers have not kept pace with demand.

I have a fair few friends who are GPs, married to GPs, whose parents were GPs. Their parents were delighted they decided to go into general practice. They would strongly advise their children against becoming GPs based on their own experience

If it's so wonderful and cushty why is there such an enormous recruitment crisis with 1 in 6 GP posts unfilled and not enough younger GPs to replace the older ones who are retiring?

One of the GPs at my health centre works “part time” in the same way that some teachers work “part time”. 12 hour days as standard I reckon

Katherine there's a post up thread that explains that. Most NHS consultants work full time with the contracted hours the NHS will hire them for. The private hours are in addition to their NHS hours.

Posted by not yesterday

"Could I just point out that a 'full time' (11PA) hospital consultant is contracted for 44 hours a week so will not be in the hospital every day either- they will do some long days and some short days."

So perfectly possible for an NHS consultant to work full time hours across multiple sites and then also private hours on top. That's how the majority of consultants who do both NHS and private work do it. May not be the case in the particular case you're referring to but certainly how all the consultants I know do both NHS and private.

If you pay GPS even less, you will have even less GPs. Why would someone work 12hour shifts making complex decisions and take on student debt to earn the same as someone working 9-5 in an office in low-level management? Especially when they have the grades/potential to earn more money in other fields?

Why does it concern you? It’s sounds a bit bitter to me!

Maybe some choose to work flexibly. But with the extended hours the NHS wants, the paperwork/admin and actually seeing patients, someone working 3 days a week can easily be doing 40 hours = full time job.
Also, I wouldn't blame them. I OFTEN think of going part time (from hospital). Today, the only upside I could see to my job was that the misery of reading some horrible emails blunted my appetite, helping my diet.

I'm not a GP but I work in the NHS as a therapist and I also work part time. I believe it means I stay in love with what I do, which I hope translates to my patients. Full time working has led to burn out and doing significantly worse in my role. I don't wish to compare myself with GPs and their workload but I totally understand if they work part time as it is probably one of those jobs where you don't work your set hours and go straight home. I have notes and things to write up, CPD and training to do and significant amount of travel on top of my working hours so I imagine it is ever more so for them

What’s wrong with working part time, in any job where it’s feasible to do so?

Lots of consultants are part time because they also teach and/or do research. GPs will also do this or split their time across difference practices.

I don't believe the previous poster who claimed that consultants who worked in private practice 3 afternoons and 2 evenings a week also had a fullt time NHS salary.

When the medical pension was changed to make the final payout based on lifetime averages instead of final salary it occurred to the medics (who are smart) that they would get more by retiring early and going back part time.

thanks Banana, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

We just see the lucky ones who were in the system when times for them were good.

The GPs I know who work "part time" actually work 3 12 hour days in a week plus admin time, so a 40+ hour week.

Also I disagree with the notion that doctors should not be entitled to work part time as people in other professions are. I am a doctor, I love my job, am dedicated and care for my patients (and like many other doctors come home and worry about my patients), but I also love being at home with my family.

we don't yet have children but I barely see my partner (we live together) as it is. I'm hoping to work part time as soon as we do have children, otherwise I can't imagine we'd have any semblance of a family life.

I know other jobs are also time pressured and I don't for a second think medicine is the only career where people struggle to strike a work-life balance, quite the opposite. But I don't see why doctors get shamed for wanting to work part time more than any other professionals.

In the doctoring world it is a rare job that suits family life (no weekends, no nights, no shifts) so it is likely that it will also attract people who don’t want to work full time.

Also they earn £100k a year so if they do 2 or 3 days a week it’s still a very good earner

My GP has a couple of month long holidays every year. Slacker? Nope he’s a GP/obstetrician so is in call a lot as well as working the regular clinic and doing weekend appointments. He also has a sports medicine specialty so sometimes he’s on leave as he’s bring a doctor at the Olympics/commonwealth games.

GPs work bloody hard.