to think that all GP's (Doctors) work part-time?

[popcornwizard]

Based on my tiny personal knowledge of 4 GP's that are friends, and a couple of others that are friends of friends etc, I'm coming to the conclusion that they all work part-time hours. Is this real? Or is it just the ones that I know. I have no idea whether any of the GP's at 'my' practice work full-time or not, but at least 3 of them work only two days/week.

So AIBU to think that they're a bunch of part-timers? And what causes this? Stress or lucrative locum contracts?

Can we just get the part time/ full time thing cleared up?
I employ GPs who work full time hours of 36-45hrs. They just do it over 3 days.

A 2 session day is usually 12-14hrs work.

6 sessions is the most I employ for over 3 days. I don't consider this part time.

I did employ an 8/9 session (60-70hrs) GP and he burnt out. 60-70 It's is MORE than full time.

And don't get me started on the work they do from home!

OP - if your GP friends are doing 5 sessions a week or less they are "p/t" but anything more based on hours worked is full time and cannot be compared to a 25-30hr week part time role.

What’s your issue with last time workers. If you can afford to work part time then do it. I’m a part time teacher. Now I’ve got kids I don’t think I could ever go full time time they’re old enough to sort themselves out in a morning and evening. A lot of the TAs work part time too, even 4 days makes a difference to their home life and doesn’t affect pay too much.
GPS are well paid, and so they should be. A very demand job which they’ve trained hard for. Most probably go part time once they settle down with a family I’d imagine - especially kids but even just seeing your partner could and having a happpy relationship could be tricky as a full time GP.

I’m guessing the OP would love to work part time but can’t afford to and is slightly jealous. Some of us just cut our cloth accordingly.

I know some GPs who do work part time and it is shorter hours than a full time GP because they also want to have a life outside of work and it is a really intense job. One for example does a 3 day week but that is 7.30 am to 6 or 7 pm, so pretty much what most people would consider full time hours.

The phrase “bunch of part timers” is never anything other than pejorative.

Shall we define ‘part-time’ and ‘full-time’?

I worked part time (office-based) - 20 hours per week.

I then transferred to full-time hours -35 hours per week.

GP daughter works part-time - 40-50 hours per week.
Her salary is, naturally, ‘part-time’. For 50 hours a week.

Oh, did I mention the additional weekend surgeries; the four/five weekends a year spent away from home on planning sessions (no time during her ‘part-time hours); the evening meetings; the telephone calls to be taken when at home during out of hours and more.

The NHS is being run on goodwill by doctors and nurses. Without their overtime, the NHS could not function. As it is, the NHS is on its knees.

Politicians: annoy these incredible people further at your peril.

OP: would you work these hours, for this pay with these stress levels as a ‘part-timer’? Honestly?

OP, YANBU you are being outrageous.

Part-time normally means locum work and still 40-50hrs a week of admin bollocks on top of their patient consults.

Regardless, even if they only ever wanted to work 20hrs a week what does it matter to you?

isn’t a full time job considered 37.5 hrs a week ????
that’s part time as far as i’m concerned .
i work 4.5 days
50 hours

I've seen figures of £100k salaries mentioned on this thread, as though that's typical GP remuneration. It's certainly possible for a full time GP partner to earn that much, but it's not exactly representative - yes there will be some GPs on 6 figure salaries, but I'm wondering if there is a perception that this is the norm?

Pay range for a salaried GP is £56,525 to £85,298, so a part time GP getting paid 60% FTE for 3 days/ week (approx 37-40 hours) would be earning more like £52k at the upper limit - part time salary for what might be considered full time hours. Strip off £10k indemnity and £42k upper limit is a wee way off a 6 figure salary. Not suggesting this is a bad wage, I'm simply wondering whether there's a discordance between what people think a GP typically earns, and the reality

I'd go with popcornwizard on this one. I do a lot of GP's accounts and I know this to be true. Big Time!

Partners earn more as they have the business risk and will have to fund redundancies as the NHS plummets.

Salaried GPs earn £8.2 - 9.3k per session

Have a look at GP recruitment adverts.

I pay top rate which is still only £55,800pa for someone working 40hrs a week in such an important job.

I'd go with popcornwizard on this one. I do a lot of GP's accounts and I know this to be true. Big Time!

Likewise, I've spent most of my working life at firms who had GPs and dentists as clients. Many get a higher pension when they retire early than they were being paid for working 2-3 days. Just done a tax return for one who retired a couple of years ago - NHS superannuation pension of over £60k - the guy was earning £50k for a 2 day week before he retired. No wonder so many go part time and then retire early these days - they can afford to. Why work more and for longer?

The penson issue is difficult. My doctor (not a GP) sibling has been advised to work as few hours as possible as they are up against the pensions cap as there is so many years/money accumulated whereas I in the private sector have no pension and may well work 20 or 30 more years than my sibling to pay their NHS pension in a sense.

I feel the same as the OP. There is one very hard-working GP at our local practice, the 3 or 4 others all seem to be part-time or "off sick". The only way for us to get an appointment in less than ten days is to go to the non-bookable "drop-in" sessions. This can result in us seeing a locum. I do appreciate that we are lucky to be able to see a doctor at short notice, but sometimes the locums do not know much about the local hospital, clinic availability etc.
A friend works as a receptionist and was shocked to see how many patients demand a weekly appointment when there is really nothing wrong with them.

The penson issue is difficult. My doctor (not a GP) sibling has been advised to work as few hours as possible as they are up against the pensions cap as there is so many years/money accumulated whereas I in the private sector have no pension and may well work 20 or 30 more years than my sibling to pay their NHS pension in a sense.

Indeed, because of the penal tax charges on people whose pension scheme values breach the ever reducing limits. Like the penal 62% marginal tax rate on those earning more than £100k (like senior GPs and dentists etc). These popular soundbites to "tax the rich till the pips squeak" are having real negative effects, i.e. effectively encouraging doctors and dentists to work fewer hours and retire early. That's madness when we have a shortage of both. We really need to reverse some of these stupid tax hikes as they're causing more harm than good.

On the pensions and older GPs is it possible for them to work as many hours as they like as locums or are they still paid within the NHS pension framework?

Does anyone know if the redesign of the NHS pension means that younger doctors will not reach the cap, even if full-time career to standard pension age? I know that the early retirement option to draw the pension has been pushed back a number of years and made more costly.

My cousin and his wife are both full timers, but still relatively new to practice. Their only day together is a Sunday if they're lucky because one of them always has to work Saturday/out of hours cover. They're both currently averaging 80 hours a week. Hardly the best start to married life.

They will go "part time" fairly soon as they want to start a family, but it will be a 40-50 hour week each still. Far higher working hours than your average part-time (or full time) worker.

I’m glad GPs have the option to work part time. Part time opportunities are very few among hospital consultants.

Perhaps it should be illegal to call working hours of 40 to 50 hours part-time.

That would greatly help clear up the confusion.

On the pensions and older GPs is it possible for them to work as many hours as they like as locums or are they still paid within the NHS pension framework?

Those who "want" to carry on working when they've reached the pension limit used to officially leave the NHS, set up as a limited company (usually with their spouse as a joint director/shareholder) and then work as locums, often at the same practice, seeing the same patients as before, but no longer paying into the NHS superannuation scheme. (And paying a lot less tax/nic because their earnings were then shared with their spouse avoiding the penal tax rates). Unfortunately, again due to tax rules designed to "tax the rich till the pips squeak), IR35 anti tax avoidance rules applicable to public sector workers have taken away the tax benefits of that option too, so those GPs are now giving up their locum work too!

Walkingdeadfangirl - doctors are already forced to work for the NHS to help pay for their training. To get their medicine qualification past the provisional level they have to do 2 foundation years. This is typically 50+ hours a week for around for £36-30k. When doctors "reminisce" about their foundation years it tends to involve stories of when they broke down and cried.

@cherrybath - RTFT. As has been established many times over 'part-time' for a GP is typically 40 hours, spread over 3 days, 'full time' would be closer to 70 hours and simply not sustainable. Appreciate the issues this caused by not having continuity of care, but it's not the GPs who are to blame here.

My partner, who is a GP, says of this issue - "If you voted Conservative then you have no place complaining because you're partly to blame, and if you want to fix it, don't vote Conservative next time."

@ShavenConnery - yes, completely! My (GP) partner gets funny whenever we go past the hospital he worked at during his F2 year. He describes it as the lowest period of his life.

My partner, who is a GP, says of this issue - "If you voted Conservative then you have no place complaining because you're partly to blame, and if you want to fix it, don't vote Conservative next time."

We live in a dormitory town for the City. Many people get private healthcare through work, so after hearing what the problem is, the first thing a GP asks patients is:

"Do you have private medical healthcare..?"

and then they refer you to the nearest private hospital.

We have lived here over 20 years, and have never voted Conservative,. Our votes count for nothing, because the constituency is true blue and Conservatives get a large majority in every election! What else can we do?

Why on earth would GPs not have the freedoms the rest of us have? No one questions whether i work FT, PT in my pyjamas. I have a degree, funded by the state pre-student loans. I'm not an economist but haven't my taxes been the payback required. I'm just glad someone is bright enough to bother doing a medical degree. I'm not and i couldn't be bothered to do sooo many years of necessary education to treat us all.

On the pensions issue (which is a thread in itself really), my doctor sibling had a limited company that they then ceased (due to the tax changes as far as I know). I think doctors' pensions are complex as there are lots of different kind of doctors - my consultant sibling full time (I think) NHS employee under PAYE with some extra work, GPs who are sole traders ( as I am in my work), GOs whoare in partnership or who operate the practice as shareholders in a limited company. Gps who do bits of part time work around the family (or lots of work ) as employees of a GP practice.