To stop sending my child to nursery cause they allow him outside

[O8O818]

here me out, I hope I'm not being PFB but I am so fed up with my child's nursery. Time and time again I've said he is not to be outside, but nobody listens! Each day he comes home caked in mud, all up his back, caked on his shoes, not wearing any gloves or a hat, some times not even wearing his wellies just his indoor shoes! Its Baltic. On Friday I went to collect him and they said he was outside making hot chocolate... with the mud he was rolling around like a pig in shit but he was covered from head to toe, in his hair, his ears, his back from when another kid through a mudball at him I don't know whether I'm overreacting though? Aibu!!

Well, you'll not find a good nursery that doesn't encourage kids outside everyday. It's normal and encouraged, even in the snow! (in fact, especially in the snow!!)

However, the children should be wrapped up warm (but not too warm! They do move around a LOT more than us grown ups! And some over heat quite easily in all the millions of layers!)

Children should also always be supervised outside.

If your requests for suitable clothing and supervision are not being acted on, could you simply move nursery?

We moved nurseries a couple of times with one or other child, and it's always worth it to know you have a good nursery you can trust!

If he isn't being supervised you need to move nurseries!!! Stop moaning about the mud and question why your 2 year old is outside alone, sometimes without a coat on.

My LO spent all day yesterday jumping in muddy puddles with her Clarks boots on and they're dry this morning. Nothing special, just in a warm room. Not sure why your struggling to dry things?

I get it's a pain to dunk him in the bath, so sort the supervision and there will be someone outside with him to stop him rolling in mud!

I think it is not just clothing and supervision. The level of mud rolling and mud slinging is in itself a problem. If the kids were inside and throwing paint at each other the staff would be telling them off. Mud balls outside is no different.

If I take mine for a walk through muddy puddles I might accept that they will likely splash in them and get water in their boots. However I will be training the behaviour out of them. I don't know anyone who wouldn't.

Our nursery runs forest kindergarten in the local park, but it is an adult led expedition not a feral children assault course.

If I had ever picked my DC up from nursery in the state you describe I would have gone through the staff there and then as would most of the other Mums I know.

Sorry if I’m missing something but I can understand jumping in puddles but not rolling around in them getting soaked to the skin. What the op is saying is extreme, mud in a child’s ear is not good. Nor if it interferes with her other commitments. Would many if you really open your door and let your little ones roll around in mud all day, every day. Mud can suffocate.

I can't move nursery as there isn't another one in the area, the only other one is attached to the school but is for 3 year olds, being at this nursery enables me to get to work on time as they open early. Other nurseries only open from 9, meaning I'd be an hour late to work.

PFB

YABU

HTH

I work in early years (albeit in England). Agree with pp who have said that the issues you need to focus on are lack of supervision and not being dressed appropriately. These are the points you need to address with the nursery. You can ask to see their policies, nurseries often have them on their websites but if not they have to provide you with a paper copy. Read them and see what they say about supervision, outside play, clothing, and then use/quote their policies when you speak with them. And if I were you I would have a coat and a pair of shoes specially for nursery, don't clean them in the week, children can have a muddy coat and shoes for nursery and then clean them on the weekend.

@ShineOnHarvestMoon

Read the thread, or at least the OPs posts

HTH

It's good for him to be outside lots. And it's fine to get dirty, etc. Just send him in old clothes.

RTFT nursery staff dont bother to make sure he is dressed appropriately for the weather nor for playing in mud.

If it's wet or very cold we insist on coats.

The ops nursery dont, they think its ok to be wearing just indoor clothes and gym shoes to play outside in cold weather and mud in November in Scotland!

Therefor OP is NBU.

I would be more concerned that your son has no other footwear other than wheelies inside of writing this to up the shop and buy your son some bloody shoes

Christ on a bike. RTFT!
Op runs out of shoes as they send him out to play in the mud in them which she then has to wash and dry. They dont use his wellies which she sends with him. He had only wellies as no other shoes were dry enough that day.

OP KNOWS he is outside alone because staff have told her. They think its fine as they can do 1:1 with other kids while he is outside.

They think its ok to be covered in wet, cold mud every day and they dont have any responsibility to ensure that he is dressed appropriately or does any other activities in the nursery with them.
They think that its ok he is unsupervised as if he fell and hurt himself he will go and tell them!

Terrible practice against all guidelines for child care settings.

I did say I wasn't sure if he is always alone, but every time I am there he is. Whether I'm 10 mins early, He is still out alone although I'm rarely that early.
Have started to draft down concerns. I know I'm being silly regards the mud but it's such a ballache, especially given it's so cold.
And yes it was in his ears, it was awful. That time I did bathe him quickly and the water was brown. Even after emptying the bath, there was traces of mud left. I wouldn't mind if he was dunking his hands in, having a good bit of sensory play with it but he is really sitting in it, lying down in it. I did question how they let him get in that state but now I realise it was because he was alone

There’s no way a 2 year old should need 5 pairs of shoes.

The big issue is he’s unsupervised, not the mud. If he were supervised it’s unlikely he’d get so muddy as the nursery teacher would encourage him in sooner to get out the cold.

Go in, state your concerns over safeguarding and figure out a way to move on with the nursery. If they continue to let you down, move him.

PFB
YABU
HTH

RTFT
HTH

It seems to be a thing these days. I know kids have to have access to outdoor play but there is a definite drive to get them back to nature.

Our local nursery school has just built a mud kitchen to actively encourage playing with the stuff. I hope they take the time to dress the kids into their appropriate clothing, and I am sincerely pleased my children are older and past all that now!

It's simple.
He should be outside, wearing an all in one waterproof and wellies, (hat and gloves if it's icy) and be supervised.

Then changed when he comes in.

Anything else is unacceptable

It seems to be a thing these days. I know kids have to have access to outdoor play but there is a definite drive to get them back to nature

Why is that a bad thing?

There’s no way a 2 year old should need 5 pairs of shoes.

Really? Wellies, snow boots or sandals, 2 x trainers & 1 smart boots or shoes. That's 6 and I don't think it's excessive 🤷🏼‍♀️

Or 5 depending on the season

What is 'PFB'?

I'm going to overlook the fact that you know that your son is not being safeguarded properly and you continue to send him there (and worry about the mud).

If you know FOR A FACT that he is alone outside (which you do because you've said staff have told you), get yourself down there Monday morning and demand you speak to the person in charge about why your child is alone outside. You pay for supervision, you could put him in your own garden and leave him there for free! (note - definitely don't do this!)

If they are not supervising him outside I would be reporting this to the care inspectorate right away. There needs to be 1 member of staff outside.

On Friday we had 2 staff to 7 children for Forest School! The fact they don't help him get ready appropriately is concerning too. It's time to get the care inspectorate involved.

Interesting how people were so quick to pounce on OP when they thought she didn't want her child muddy, yet 100% quick to defend a different woman who only dressed her child in white or very subtle accent colours, and only ever had wooden toys and no toys out to see in the house that would suggest a child lives there I remember it well!

There is obviously a problem with supervision at this nursery and you need to look into it. They should keep an eye on him and not let him go out without suitable clothing.

But please don't do things like binning a coat just because it gets gloss on it: it's a terribly wasteful way of dealing with a small child and will feed into your own perception that small children shouldn't get dirty. It's absolutely fine to send him in a coat that is less than pristine to a place where you know he's going to get mucky. A jacket doesn't have to be washed every time it gets a bit of mud on it- use a stiff clothes brush. A jacket with a blob of paint on it will still keep him warm.

I keep seeing the word "unsupervised" but what does this mean in this situation? I ask because people often equate supervision with the notion that an adult has to be hovering over a child constantly.

England's EYFS regulations clearly require outdoor spaces to be secure in terms of access, and all equipment to be safe and suitable. Supervision means having an adult within sight and/or hearing.

Scotland's National Care Standards are far less proscriptive and lack the same details, but I’d hazard a guess their inspectors would be looking for much the same things as an English Ofsted inspector.

Is it possible the child is indeed being supervised, but from indoors rather than a worker standing over him?

What specific risk/hazard is it that concerns you when he’s outdoors? I ask because the constant reference to a lack of supervision presupposes there’s some sort of danger outside, maybe a pond or something?

Complain to the CI.

At the end of the day there’s a safeguarding issue, plus they sound like a bunch of lazy bastards, not putting on the clothes provided for him. At the end of the day you’re paying for a service which they’re not providing to your satisfaction.

Top tip: don't send him in with indoor shoes, send him in with wellies and slippers. Don't send him in with a hoodie and a snowsuit, send him in with a snowsuit.
They're not going to shit the bed so comprehensively that he'll be out there in a t-shirt and slippers. Give them fewer plausible options for outdoor wear.

I don't think it's unreasonable for him to be outside each day, in fact, I think it's good practice. However, they should ensure he puts on coat, hat, etc. Maybe you should have indoor and outdoor shoes for him. Leave the indoor ones there and have wellies for outdoors, but they would have to put them on before he goes out. My son's preschool have a policy that they go outside every day, it's one of the things I like about it. They do ensure all the children are appropriately dressed though.