Moral Dilemma - to sell this and pocket the cash?

[PersonaNonGarter]

I have a moral dilemma.

A Sponging Relative (‘SR’) has run up so much debt that he has finally been evicted from his property and is likely to be made bankrupt shortly. He is also a massive hoarder. Recently, my aunt went to visit SR and suggested he part with some toys rather than pack them before eviction. The toys were given to my DC.

The toys turn out to be worth a lot of money and I will sell them rather than have them take up space - DC aren’t going to play with them. Should I :

1. Pocket the cash and give it to my DC on some way like a holiday
2. Give it to the very skint SR
3. Give the cash to some of the people SR has sponged off.

He doesn’t sponge off me although he has tried. In law, I know they were a gift and are mine/DCs. But morally...?

You would most definitely be morally bankrupt yourself to do this and tbh, I do not understand why you do not see that.

I completely agree. The lack of self awareness is shocking.

Sell them.

Tell aunt you have done so, no space for them in your house and they might as well go to someone who values them. Do not pander to hoarding and pretend you agree with hoarding.

Give aunt the money, tell her you know SR owes her money so she can deduct what he owes and give him the rest.

Decision of how much she keeps is out of your hands.

She is unlikely to find out about it. Because you wont tell her!
I always think you can tell the true nature of someone by how they would behave if they knew they would never be found out.

Ps I would be worried in any event about the laws of bankruptcy. If someone knows they are likely to be made bankrupt and rapidly gives away all their assers to family so that their creditors can't get access to them, is this allowed, or can the assets be clawed back? Could you personally get into trouble for accepting the assets and pocketing the cash from selling them when you know there are lots of official creditors out there entitled to that cash?

Sell the items and spend £2000 getting help for your aunt's hoarding issues.

MN is getting more and more bizarre. OP is not morally bankrupt for receiving an unsolicited gift and wondering what to do with it! SR could have sold the toys himself but didn't.

OP, I don't think you ought to pay SR anything, especially if his partner is an addict. I'd send the cash to your aunt minus a cut for the hassle of selling (25%).

assets not assers!

haven’t been given money - I have been given a box of stuff that requires action/resources if it was ever to become stuff.
But you asked about what to do with the cash! Don’t then berate people for focusing on the money!

If they were worth nothing, I would give them to a charity shop.

Giving anything back to my aunt makes her life harder. She finds decisions about personal items very hard. She has old medicines of my grandmothers. GM died 25 years ago.

Aunt is also not a key creditor, that’s why options 2&3 were about SR and his creditors and aunt not a factor.

You're not really having a moral dilemma though are you. You keep referencing the effort it will take to seek them like it's some sort of mammoth task that's very hard in order to justify keeping the money.

The fact you mention the LL won't see a penny despite being over thousands in rent says a lot too.

Hand them back to the aunt or inform the trustees and let them handle the sale so that a little bit of the debt is cleared to the innocent people owed inc the LL. keeping the money would be utterly selfish and wrong.

OP already said that if she handed two thousand quid to SR there is no way any of his creditors would get a sniff of a shilling. SR couldn't be naffed to find out the things were worth money or to go to the trouble of selling them. He just left them for the aunt to dump on someone else. We're not talking about someone who passed their old toys on to young relatives to be nice, because he thought they would enjoy them. If that were the situation it certainly would be morally wrong to even think of selling them without the previous owner's agreement.

Laughing at the idea that someone with intelligence and a good education wouldn't choose the life of a sponger. Some do. I suppose you could say it's a MH issue but in that case, what isn't?

roundaboutthetown

That's a very good point, and even more of a reason to give them back to the aunt.

OP you never had the money from selling them, and don't want the toys for your children to play with so you're not missing out by handing them back. If you aunt decides to hoard them then that's her prerogative, but they're not yours to keep or profit off when doing so is depriving those that are owed money.

... I suppose we should be grateful he didn't decide to go into politics.

OP there are some really judgemental people on here. The beauty of posting anonymously.

Sell the toys. If the aunt asks tell her your DC weren’t interested in playing with them, you realised they were somewhat valuable as they were in good condition so sold them to people who would cherish them and use the money to buy your children toys that they will enjoy and play with.

Or stick the money raised in a savings account for them. We recently came into some money specifically for our children, so have placed it in their ISAs, which mean we can’t touch it and they get it when they’re 18.

That might be the best plan if they have lots of toys already.

Your relative sounds like an arse. I'm not going to label him with "Mental Health Issues" because not every arse has those. Many people are just arses. Period.

OP, the toys are now yours. Do whatever the hell you want with them. If it was me, I'd use the cash to buy something really nice for your DS that he wants, and then put the rest in his saving account (or start one, if he doesn't have one yet) or put it towards a family holiday.

It's not your responsibility to support this person in any way, shape or form. They have made their bed of their own free will and now get to lie in it. Nothing you do will prevent that, or even significantly ameliorate it. A couple of thousand in the bank for old toys that will otherwise spend their lifetime gathering dust under a pile of junk seems like a decent trade. It's not your job to pay back the debt he's in, or sort his life out, or indeed do anything at all except look out for yourself and your DS.

PersonaNonGarter - look at this website for advice on your relative whom you think is likely to be made bankrupt.... It clearly shows you should not keep what you have been given...
www.stepchange.org/debt-info/bankruptcy-family-friends-loans.aspx

Another vote here for bell ends hiding behind the ‘mental health’ term so beloved of snowflakes everywhere.

Just because someone doesn’t conform to the norm doesn’t mean they have mental health issues. It means they’re a nob.

The money should go direct to the landlord. definitely.

It's for the trustee in bankruptcy to sort out... not for relatives to conspire to take assets or money out of the reach of official creditors.

As someone prone to hoarding things in the attic, I’d say it would be monumentally unhelpful to tell aunt or SR that these toys are worth loads. It will reinforce their ideas that everything is worth keeping. When actually, it’s very rare.

Furthermore you don’t owe his debtors anything. His debts are not yours. You don’t know that he will imminently descend into bankruptcy and it is not fault/business if he does.

Morally and legally you can do what you want with the gift of the toys.

I also wouldn’t look to pay any of his debts in case any of his other debtors approach you for restitution.

My aunt definitely did not think she was ‘conspiring to take money away’. She was taking a box of family toys to another family member. No-one is conspiring or defrauding.

homeishere - it is the OP's business, because if SR does become bankrupt, the OP can be asked to return the assets she was given.

Do people really not understand what goes on with hoarders? If OP asked the aunt to collect the trunk it’ll just fall into the black hole of her house. No decision will be made about the trunk of toys other than “Should I put it on the left or the right of the Christmas cake from 1997?”

The aunt is not going to sell the items to recoup the cash. She literally can’t fathom or process doing this because her brain cannot do it. Neither the aunt nor the SR will see the money if the aunt takes the items back. It’ll likely stress out the aunt more.

I assume the receivers will review and value the remaining hoard?

Dear aunt; the toys you gave are very valuable and I am going to sell them. With the money I'll buy the DC some contemporary toys for Christmas and spend the rest on piano/ballet/swimming which are expensive to fund but so enriching.

Your kind gesture has been anazing for us and of so much benefit to the children. Thank you so much.