To say I understand why some people don’t pay child maintenance? X

[princessmum1]

Just that really. It seems crazy that child maintenance is not means tested beyond anything other than income. It doesn’t matter if your mortgage/rent or your ex partners is £2000 a month or £300 a month you’ll b expected to pay the same amount. Seems odd when you compare it to benefits that are very much means tested based on everything.

My DDs father pays the grand sum of £15 per week despite the fact she is almost 18. He's self employed and comfortably well off.
DD attends boarding school and I asked him to help towards the fees etc and he flatly refused.

He is a complete waste of space.

I worked in a Magistrates' Clerks Office for a few years, and the Fines section used to collect court-ordered CM as well. Some men would have orders of £1 a week! And at that they wouldn't come in to pay it themselves, their mothers or girlfriends would climb the three flights of stairs to pay it and any other fines they were paying off.

I think it depends on their income, I have just split with EDP of ten year's, he now needs to find a new house suitable to have our 2 ds stay, he will have next to nothing left once he covers his bills so I have agreed to him not paying cm, just to help with payment towards clothes in summer and winter. If he won the lottery I wouldnt if agreed however leaving him with nothing won't benefit our xhildren.

Understanding does not make it acceptable. Especially when in some cases it seems to be done to spite the ex-DW or ex-DH.

I also agree jail for those who don’t pay, also removal of passports. My daughters ex pays her a fiver a week, he’s self employed and lies about his earnings, and the CSA or whatever they call themselves now, blindly accept his lies about his so called pitiable earnings. He holidays abroad twice a year and drives a very expensive car. I detest him.

In the US people's driving licences are taken if they default on CM. Proper order.

Whilst I like the idea it doesn’t really help those who’s ex partners can’t drive 😫

My ex has a very good income but pleads poverty yet can always afford trips abroad, cigarettes and eating out nearly every other day. He doesn’t know the meaning of the word poverty.

I always wondered how he got girlfriends they knew he was shit dad yet still went there. I couldn’t do it personally I’d be worried they do the same to me if I got pregnant.

DOE are the best bet providing the employers are legit which obviously most are. We’ve recently been taken off DOE and switched to DD direct pay. This is because he has been compliant with the DOE?! Of course he has it’s out of his bloody hands. He can’t NOT be compliant. Stupid stupid rule.

As has often been suggested, seeing as its hmrc administer cm already cms being a branch of hmrc as it were, there's really no reason all child support couldn't be taken direct from source when income tax and NI deducted.

Simple, effective, based on actual calculations - why not?

I saw a post today a out justice for dad's, being forced to pay maintenance and not allowed too see the children.
Only thing is six of the men who reshared the post have no children.
Three pay and hate it and are really Disney dadds.
One pays more than he should and helps his ex all the time... Great dad..
And the most vocal one pays nothing and never sees his children by choice...

Like a PP, my DD's Dad pleaded poverty 24/7 too. He's fully NC with his now though thank goodness. He thought it was a good idea to stay in a part time role at work and said he could never spare any money yet was constantly in the pub, on holidays and buying new things for himself. I've had issues with my own Dad where he put him and his wife up in countless expensive and unnecessarily big houses meanwhile my Mum could barely feed me and we lived in a damp infested flat. His wife hasn't held down a job for more than a few months for the past 15 years and they don't have kids so doesn't have to stay at home. She's perfectly fit and able to work. It was horrific growing up knowing that he paid for his (then) girlfriend to live but not his own child. I should have been a priority. Your child should have everything before you buy a big house (unless they live in it too), expensive car and other luxuries. Yes parents are entitled to enjoy their own lives as such but not when their children don't have enough food to eat or clothes to wear etc. Sorry for the long post this thread really hits home!

It's always stunted me that NRPs aren't required to pay 50% of nursery/school fees. It's their child too?! My DD is going to our town's private school as all of the public ones haven't had decent OFSTED in years and I went to 2 of them so know what the they're like. I did a bit of research and her Dad is not legally required to pay towards school fees or any uniforms/materials etc. Why not? There should definitely be more 'laws' in place that make parents equally responsible for the child financially. I barely agree with the CMS format as it is. Every payment should be halved so e.g. school shoes were £40? NRP needs to pay £20. Food Shop for child adds up to £100? NRP needs to pay £50. I wish this world was that easy!

People saying it's the NRP paying the bare minimum to support are so wrong. How can you deem that one child is worth £0-7 a month to clothe feed and look after. The next is £100-200 to clothe feed and look after and the final one is £200 + more to feed and water. The system is a shambles. There should be a set price that it costs to raise a child. It shouldn't depend on the amount of money you have. If you want maintenance to continue the lifestyle you're use to in a divorce then there is a separate court process for that! Everyone has the right to live a life. It is more expensive to live in some areas of the country where schools are better etc. So it's ok for the mother to live there and be subsidised by housing benefit etc. But the father has to move away to a cheaper area because it's tough shit and you happen to be male. So the mother is entitled to a quality of life she has become accustomed to based on her ex partners salary and she still gets subsidised by the government if needed and the father must move far away work harder and harder to get a decent amount of money to pay for essentials because 25% of it goes to the mother. The harder they work the more they pay. The 25% then takes them below the threshold of what is 'needed' to live on but they can't claim tax credits because they're not the resident parent. The system is a complete mess and before anyone comments. I have a child who's father pays a standard £250 a month for him. It's an adequate amount of money for me to bring him up on. I now have to work full time to provide the rest of the money. His dad earns very well but I will not chase him for more money because he has the right to a life as well that isn't governed and crippled by a system that is so wrong. If I wanted to claim money for the lifestyle I had become accustomed to then I would have filed at court for spousal support. The whole thing enrages me. I could go on and on

Pugalugs90 cm is 12% of grosd for one child not 25%.

gross

sanpelle, it does depend on a lot of things - eg I eanred 10x my children's father which is why I ended up paying 100% of everything (their fater is a teacher). Where couples earn the same I don't see why they should not have the children half the time ach and pay half the childcare costs and other costs straight down the line and share any child benefit or tax credits 50/50 too.

I always wondered how he got girlfriends they knew he was shit dad yet still went there. I couldn’t do it personally I’d be worried they do the same to me if I got pregnant.

Usually it's because they spin the new girlfriend a line about how their ex is a psychotic money-grubbing bitch who kicked his poor innocent arse onto the streets so that she could slag around with her mates whilst neglecting his poor children who never even see a penny of the (bare minimum) maintenance he sends them.

Sanpelle if a NRP had to pay half of everything, including school fees then they would have to have as much say in where the child went to school. There would have to be agreed foods if they were to have equal responsibility for paying. What if the NRP insisted on private school, but the RP couldn't afford half the fees? What if a rich NRP demanded that their children be fed on caviar and lobster? Or totally organic locally grown fruit and veg, while the RP lived out of that area and couldn't get those foods?

I do think that the attitude towards feckless NRPs in this country is appalling, that they should be made to take financial responsibility for their children, but it's not as easy as splitting it down the middle.

I do think it would help a lot if the NRPs who are conning their way out of paying, or are paying well below what they actually could or should were to be shamed, if as a society we shunned people who behaved like this.

The tabloids know how to do that, as they've had such success with the stigma they've brought down on so-called benefits cheats and "scroungers"; if they could be persuaded to turn their attention to CM cheats then we'd be getting somewhere.

I heard a statistic that after splitting RPs are 70% worse off financially and NRPs 40% better off. I would have thought both parties would be worse off?

Oh and stopping anything and everything the second the kid turns 18. Yes, it would be fabulous if my YA kids didn't cost me a penny.

@Jux NRP’s do have a say in which school the dc attend, they have a say in doctors appointments and dentists and vaccinations and everything else. I think it all comes under parental responsibility.

Ex tried to prevent me from continuing to send my dc to private school, which had been agreed together and was being financed by me anyway. The judge on that occasion, as the dc already attended the school and his reasoning was I should use the fees money to pay of his debts, ignored twatface. Even the judge was flabbergasted at ex’s attitude.

they can't claim tax credits because they're not the resident parent

Not sure of the law but I know people without children/living alone who are entitled to tax credits

Pugalug - I am finding it very hard to believe you're an RP.

Where have any of us said that we think different children cost more/less to raise than others?! We've been saying the opposite! That the children from the original relationship don't cost LESS to raise simply because the nrp moves in with someone who also has kids from a previous relationship or because they have more children.

Also - NOBODY has said they want money to maintain their own lifestyle! That's what nrps often claim when they're trying to wriggle out of claiming! What we're saying is that the CHILDREN of the relationship shouldn't suffer any more than absolutely necessary as a result of their parents splitting.

"It shouldn't depend on the amount of money you have." Why? Why shouldn't the CHILDREN of an nrp benefit from what level of income they earn? Just as they benefit from what the RP earns?

Yea the more I read the more I think you're the partner/spouse of an nrp. You may be both an RP and the partner/spouse of an nrp but the latter is what's colouring your view mostly, though the fact you have an ex that DOES pay decent child maintenance without query also affects your perspective.

RP's very very rarely do better out of splitting than nrps.

"So the mother is entitled to a quality of life she has become accustomed to based on her ex partners salary" NOBODY has said that or anything like it!

"and she still gets subsidised by the government if needed" that (ex wife's finances) is nothing to do with the nrp!

"and the father must move far away work harder and harder to get a decent amount of money to pay for essentials because 25% of it goes to the mother." No! It goes to the CHILD it's CHILD maintenance. As for the "woe is me" crap. That's called parenting, you do what's necessary to make sure your CHILD is ok.

"but they can't claim tax credits because they're not the resident parent." You must mean child tax credits & childcare tax credits - which are again - for the CHILD. So why would the nrp who isn't covering the majority of the costs AND doing most of the parenting get this?!

"I have a child who's father pays a standard £250 a month for him" then you're very lucky. That's decent amount compared to what many get (usually £0) and if your ex is paying regularly without question you are in a better position than very many RP's. I'd also be very interested to know how old your child is and how you're managing to raise them on £500 a month? Does that include childcare?

You ALL (you, your child & your ex) have the right to a decent life based on fair division of the responsibilities for your child - financially, practically and emotionally. Can you HONESTLY say your ex is contributing 50% of the costs of raising your child? Cos if so I for one would LOVE to know where you live that's so cheap!

"Usually it's because they spin the new girlfriend a line about how their ex is a psychotic money-grubbing bitch who kicked his poor innocent arse onto the streets so that she could slag around with her mates whilst neglecting his poor children who never even see a penny of the (bare minimum) maintenance he sends them." Exactly! My ex was kinda stuffed on this though because his ow was supposedly my friend and knew me so she knows I'm not like that, but I've certainly seen that crap happen to friends.

"The tabloids know how to do that, as they've had such success with the stigma they've brought down on so-called benefits cheats and "scroungers"; if they could be persuaded to turn their attention to CM cheats then we'd be getting somewhere." Wouldn't that be great? Will never happen though - because who staffs/runs/owns them? Nrps!

"I would have thought both parties would be worse off?" Why? Nrps are then still earning what they did before but only paying 12% of the child's costs. Of course they're going to be better off! Whereas the RP is still earning what they were before (unless they've had to change jobs due to childcare issues which likely leaves them worse off too!) and apparently paying 88% of the child's costs - except the reality is that 12% of the nrps gross is rarely as much as 12% of the child's costs even so actually the RP is paying more of this.

Agree Re over 18's still costing money! Especially if they go to uni. But seeing as we can't (as a country) even seem to get nrps to pay before 18, after 18 is a fantasy!

My ex stopped paying when my eldest went to uni, which i understood. My youngest is 19 and still attends college, he stopped paying for her in Feb. I could have gone back to cs but couldnt be arsed as he said i was a money grabbing bitch (couldnt understand why lol)

My piece of s**t ex hasn't paid a penny in 5 years, yet he has plenty of money for multiple vacations, drugs, cigarettes and alcohol. And for some reason his new wife thinks that's all just fine.

I know a mother whose ex was made to pay for private school for his son's education even though he transferred to a state school at the start of Year 10. He was a policeman so it was a financial struggle. The mother kept the money.
The problem is that the government cannot afford to investigate every case in detail. There are lots of mothers who don't play fair and abide by the rules and lots of fathers who abscond without paying anything. It is very difficult to police.
Everyone knows it is in the child's interests to have shared parenting with 50/50 as a starting point. If this happens , no money need change hands and the child is able to benefit from having both parents involved in their lives.
Some mothers seem to think it is their right to work part time even after their relationship has broken down. If employers allowed men and women to have more flexible working arrangements so that both parents could care equally for their children a lot of the problems would disappear.