To think mums using formula are shamed more than breastfeeding mums?

[Mumtoboy123]

Before having children i didnt realise how big of an issue this seems to be. Everywhere you go you hear "breast is best" and yes, this is the case for some, however, i had my son 7 weeks ago and i was never too fussed about breastfeeding. I knew it would hurt, take a lot of time to get right and i would be the sole provider of feeding day and night. I knew that for me, this was a lot of pressure, that i would rather DH have the chance to feed DS and get that connection with him and we could face night feeds as a team. I also suffer from chronic fatigue and knew 2 hourly BF by myself would kill me or cause low feeling and possible PND.
When DS was born, i was rushed to surgery following the birth. Before this happened, because i felt i had to, id said i wanted to try and breastfeed for the first few days of colostrum at least. This meant that while i was being prepped for surgery, a midwife was 'panic expressing' in an attempt to get DS to latch on. Quite traumatic. DH then had to give DS a bottle while surgery took so long and we carried on from there.
Since having DS ive had aot of people assuming im breastfeeding, ignoring me saying im formula feeding and continuing to tell me their BF stories and advice, and i get funny looks wherever i bottle feed out of the house, especially at mum groups.
Surely feeding my child in the best way that suits our family is better than BF and my bond with DS suffering because of the hardship, or worse, not feeding at all?! There seems to be a lot of focus on supporting BF mums because of the opinions related to getting breast out in public but no support for those who have chosen to formula feed for whatever reason, if anything, when you say you are formula feeding you get a bit of a look and an "oh right" comment... then a silence. Its got to the point where i see another formula feeding mum in costa and i want to run up to her and high-5 her!!
Just to clarify... i have nothing against Breastfeeding at all... especially in public.

5% won't make milk at all, about 20% will not make enough, especially in the early days)

Where are these statistics from, please, RidingMyBike?

Im breastfeeding my 15 month old and have been shamed for feeding both inside my own home and out and about. When I expressed milk into a bottle I never received one funny look or comment. The comments I received for breastfeeding are really disgusting - I have even been accused of sexually abusing my child by an elderly man because im still breastfeeding her over 1 year old.

Fuck knows what he'd have thought of me bfing DS at 23 months then!

"5% won't make milk at all, about 20% will not make enough, especially in the early days)"

Where do these figures come from? And why do they not seem to apply in countries like Finland where 95% of babies are breastfed? Also-are you suggesting that 25% of babies died of starvation before formula became available?

@LadyGregorysToothbrush various articles/research - the figures vary but I've seen figures between 10 and 23% for initial low milk supply
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5005964/#ffnn_sectitle

Bit of a contrast with what I was led to believe that it was vanishingly rare.

You answered your own question. You said you decided not to BF because "it would hurt, take a lot of time to get right and i would be the sole provider of feeding day and night". Yet in the same post you're wondering why there is more support for BF mums than FF mums. You said it yourself- it's hard to breastfeed. For all the reasons you mention (and more), BF mums need support.
It's also better for the baby (providing the mum can feed the baby) so therefore organisations like the NHS and charities fund BF support.

I’ve never felt any judgement about FF. I had a little unnecessary sympathy about ‘failing’ to BF.

In reality at a baby group, everyone feeds their baby when they’re hungry and in my area that’s a fairly equal split between BF and FF... there are bigger things to worry about - how you feed your child for the next 18 years will have more of an impact!

100 years ago 15% of babies died before their first birthday. Many others would have been failing to thrive and malnourished. People were trying to establish milk banks in cities to save lives. Ok some of those would have been birth injuries or disease we now vaccinate against.

Don't forget too that in the past many women who are trying to BF now wouldn't have been then eg because of infertility (one of the risk factors for low milk supply), one or both died during birth. Another risk factor for low supply is haemorrhage, the sort of thing that would have killed a woman once. If you and your baby did survive all that then you'd have most likely had sisters, cousins, maybe even your own mum around you and so other lactating women who could have topped up your baby. And we know that babies were also given unsuitable things (bottle type drinking vessels exist) such as cows milk, presumably also as a substitute because why would you if you had plenty of milk? There never has been a time when BFing worked for all women and babies.

Think about it - some women produce gallons relatively easily and fill freezers, donate to NICU. Others feed on demand frequently and express and still don't make enough. Some manage to EBF twins. We have natural variation.

@Ghanagirl no science was mentioned I was simply pointing out that fed is best, I did pm you to explain what I meant but you ignored it and based on your replies I can tell it’s because your just a massive keyboard warrior/troll.

Somebody always trots put something about the Scandinavian countries with high BFing rates, but as I understand it, those countries also interpret their stats differently - they have high BF rates but many of those babies are also having formula, so they aren't EBF.

Where I live BFing rates are high (80+% initiate BFing) and almost 60% are still BFing at 6-8 weeks. This may be why I found so much pressure to BF here and no support for combi-feeding.

YABU as it's not a competition. I bf, it bloody hurts like hell sometimes, I've had mastitis, cracked nips etc but, the fact is, it is the best thing for my baby so I'll carry on as that is what I prioritise. I couldn't give two hoots about what anyone else feeds theirs or the reasons why. I get judged stared at by nasty old women in cafes but I just stare back, who cares, it's my choice. You personally chose to do what was most convenient for yourself and your family over what is recommended to be better for baby, which is absolutely fine and that's your decision as it suits you. No need to justify your decisions, or compare yourself to anyone else.

100 years ago 15% of babies died before their first birthday. Many others would have been failing to thrive and malnourished. People were trying to establish milk banks in cities to save lives. Ok some of those would have been birth injuries or disease we now vaccinate against.

Some?! Almost all. The huge drops in infant mortality in the developed world came with better hygiene and disease control, not the invention of formula.

I am a HCP and breastfed my first child for 2.5 years. Baby 2 due in a few weeks and plan to breastfeed this time if possible.

I think there’s lip service paid to breastfeeding antenatally. Actual support in the postnatal period is patchy and generally based on a midwife/health visitor/gps own experience of feeding. Much of the support is provided by volunteers which is often fantastic but again is not going to provide the specialist support many women need.

The lack of intergenerational breastfeeding knowledge is what is really noticeable. There are deprived communities in London where breastfeeding rates are higher than in rich boroughs- often African or Asian communities where breastfeeding is the norm and new mums are supported to breastfeed by their mothers, aunts, sisters etc.

Most of us don’t have that family or community support, we are told that babies should feed every 3/4 hours and not more often. We are told that we are martyring ourselves to breastfeed and that feeding longer than 6 months is all about the mothers needs. Expressing at work is difficult (when I was in frontline services and often the most senior person on the team nobody was going to take my bleep so I could express!). I got comments about feeding at the school gates and how it was ridiculous to still be feeding after 1.

Obviously some people react to this anti-breastfeeding position by becoming quite militant. Often our own sense of guilt over our choices might lead us to feel we are being judged. I felt terrible guilt that my DD wouldn’t take a bottle, that I was the only one who could feed her and was worried something would happen to me and she’d go hungry. It’s not always rational!

In reality I doubt many people are judging anyone for formula feeding. As it is the choice the majority of women make!

I was reflecting on this thread and thinking the judgments on feeding any way we do it were in our own heads and we should focus on supporting each other whatever our choices.

When I read this
You personally chose to do what was most convenient for yourself and your family over what is recommended to be better for baby,
Sadly judgements over feeding choices are real. They are destructive and unhelpful but they are not imagined.

Reading through there are a lot of valid points.

In my experience I couldn’t breastfeed despite everything we tried due to posterior tongue tie which wasn’t diagnosed until 18 weeks. I was happy to ff as that is just what LO needed, however I found it hard - yes due to guilt- whenever I spoke to breastfeeding mums for advice or clicking “yes I agree breast is best” on the Aptimil website or whatever is said. (That’s how I read it because I was angry at myself for not being able to breastfeed.

There is no problem in choosing to ff over breastfeed, and I may have done anyway. But the fact I tried so hard and couldn’t was something that I struggled with at first. we’ve been in and out of hospital quite a few times and I always wonder if that’s down to not being bf.

I have had comments from a neighbour and MIL about the fact I dont bf, it was judgy and awful but apart from that never worried about what people thought

I haven't RTFT but I feed exclusively expressed breastmilk and I feel judged for bottle feeding. Maybe that's because I still feel I 'failed' at breastfeeding even though he hasn't ever had formula. In my NCT group 7 out of 8 babies are exclusively breastfed and all are over 6 months. In a baby group I go to, it's about 50/50 but again, all are over 6 months.

@JellyBears
We’re on a public forum and you choose to pm me an aggressive message so now that I’ve blocked you you’ve followed me back to thread. Stop PMing me.

Yanbu as 4 Corners ridiculous and nasty post illustrates.

Just didn’t try hard enough, pmsl😂.

Are you as unpleasant re all parenting choices and hurdles or just the one you succeeded in. There will plenty of other choices and hurdles other mothers will be succeeding at better than you. Guess you’re just not trying hard enough.

Hi F1annel. I’m not a nasty person, and while it might seem ridiculous all of that really did happen to me. I just get fed up with people coming up with ways to excuse their choice, which when you have lived through those issues, quickly become apparent are often a flimsy veneer to justify choice to FF because it suited them more.

In my experience, the vast majority who stop BF blame problems they didn’t have - or that could have been solved with support that they didn’t seek out. So, yeah, forgive me if I inwardly roll my eyes while they tell me “they really, really wanted to BF but XYZ happened” especially when I ask them what support they sought or other options they tried.

Like I said, if you want to FF, crack on, but don’t use real women’s real problems to cover for whatever your personal reason for that choice is.

Also, breast is still best.

Just look at your language- nasty and ridiculous.

Newsflash- some mums try above and beyond and guess what? It still doesn’t work and is detrimental both to mother and child. So much so that the benefits just aren’t worth it.

Oh and this support you speak off that mums are supposed to seek out, you’d have to live on Mars not to know it often isn’t there.

Breast is best but so are several other parenting choices far more worthy of judging if we all want to go down your route.

Some very charitable replies today

The best thing that can be said about this very unpleasant debate is that it fades into irrelevance very quickly in the grand scheme of things.
In a couple of years no one will know, ask or care how you fed your dc for the first year.
It isn't worth the level of unpleasantness shown by some people on this thread and it just fades into an irrelevance regardless of the choices you made.

Whilst I can accept that my final post of the three I sent earlier was badly worded and came across as mean I reserve the right to share my opinion - especially when I speak as I find. I am absolutely aware that some women try everything, and ultimately, they go down the route of completely FF. I know this because I have met them, spoken with them, comisterated and supported them. I’m talking however, about the vast majority, who give their supposed problems as a justification for what is a free choice - and I’d respect them owning it far more.

I know that support can be piss poor - I got mine mostly online and eventually by paying for an IBCLC. There was some lovely support available locally, but aimed at women with smaller issues than mine. It seemed to work for lots of women, just not me.

Most of the local women I speak to don’t know it’s there though - because they don’t ask.

Yabvu
There is not enough support for BF mum's.
It isn't shaming you to say breast is best. It's a fact.
If you want to give artificial milk out of a tin easy peasy that's fine but don't act as if the majority of the population are being shamed because it's acknowledged it isn't the best for your baby.

In my experience, the vast majority who stop BF blame problems they didn’t have - or that could have been solved with support that they didn’t seek out. So, yeah, forgive me if I inwardly roll my eyes while they tell me “they really, really wanted to BF but XYZ happened” especially when I ask them what support they sought or other options they tried.

I found it massively triggering and revolting to the point where cutting off my nipples seemed like a reasonable idea. I stuck it for 3 months with both dc1 and dc2 and hated every single second of it. It didn't make me bond with them, with dc1 especially it made me resent and hate him. I tend not to tell anyone that in "real life" unless they are a close friend. Instead I make an excuse as to why I stopped. I'm not saying that most people who stop have the same reasons I did but from conversations with a couple of peer supporters make me think I'm not alone.

Practical support is definitely lacking for breast feeding, my second had latch issues. A variety of midwives had a look, told me I was doing everything right and just to keep trying to attach a screaming angry baby. A peer supporter whispered "try nipple shields but don't tell anyone I told you" to me. I think the turnover in maternity hospitals doesn't help. I had an emcs with both mine and stayed 3 nights with dc1 (NICU stay) and 1 night with dc2. The home visits were clearly box ticking trips and nothing more.