To think mums using formula are shamed more than breastfeeding mums?

[Mumtoboy123]

Before having children i didnt realise how big of an issue this seems to be. Everywhere you go you hear "breast is best" and yes, this is the case for some, however, i had my son 7 weeks ago and i was never too fussed about breastfeeding. I knew it would hurt, take a lot of time to get right and i would be the sole provider of feeding day and night. I knew that for me, this was a lot of pressure, that i would rather DH have the chance to feed DS and get that connection with him and we could face night feeds as a team. I also suffer from chronic fatigue and knew 2 hourly BF by myself would kill me or cause low feeling and possible PND.
When DS was born, i was rushed to surgery following the birth. Before this happened, because i felt i had to, id said i wanted to try and breastfeed for the first few days of colostrum at least. This meant that while i was being prepped for surgery, a midwife was 'panic expressing' in an attempt to get DS to latch on. Quite traumatic. DH then had to give DS a bottle while surgery took so long and we carried on from there.
Since having DS ive had aot of people assuming im breastfeeding, ignoring me saying im formula feeding and continuing to tell me their BF stories and advice, and i get funny looks wherever i bottle feed out of the house, especially at mum groups.
Surely feeding my child in the best way that suits our family is better than BF and my bond with DS suffering because of the hardship, or worse, not feeding at all?! There seems to be a lot of focus on supporting BF mums because of the opinions related to getting breast out in public but no support for those who have chosen to formula feed for whatever reason, if anything, when you say you are formula feeding you get a bit of a look and an "oh right" comment... then a silence. Its got to the point where i see another formula feeding mum in costa and i want to run up to her and high-5 her!!
Just to clarify... i have nothing against Breastfeeding at all... especially in public.

Haven't RTFT as this subject has been done to death on MN but my stance is this:

Breastfeeding SHOULD be encouraged and supported, and it is scientific fact that breast is beast, because it is. I chose to FF for various reasons but I have never felt shamed by promotion of BF as I know that it is the better option, and it should be encouraged.

It’s nothing like smoking !

Not in this country there isn’t.

Because as much as there are issues in the developing world which would contribute to higher infant mortality rates there are also issues in the developed world which have nothing to do with formula.

It doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t matter.

I always find on threads like this that there is a rush of people that are keen to deny the benefifs of breastfeeding and imply that FF is actually the superior option. As PP have already stated, it is incredibly difficult to isolate the impact that breastfeeding has on individuals as there are so many other factors that affect our long-term outcomes and health. Not withstanding this, the best evidence available does seem to indicate that breastfeeding is the optimal way to feed a baby.

It's very confusing to me as although I BFed both my DC for over a year, I currently don't always feed them the absolute best diet possible but I would never dream of defending the chicken nugget that I have given them in lieu of the grilled chicken breast or whatever. Overall I'm satisfied that their diet is good enough and that it is relatively balanced even though it isn't optimal. Other parents I know FFed but never let any refined sugar or processed foods cross their child's lips. Which child will have the better long-term health? I don't really know and to be honest suspect that genetics, environmental factors etc can scupper a parent's best laid plans anyway, so I think that we should just all do the best we can and not obsess over specific elements of diet and nutrition if the overall picture is fine.

I do wonder if the one size fits all discussion on the benefits of breastfeeding helps, there are obviously different issues with third world countries like access to clean water and contraception which aren't relevant in the UK.

Ah, I see the stupid argumentatives are out in force.

It’s not remotely like smoking. But if you’re looking for a difference, then the majority of people who smoke have some kinds of health problems, even if it’s just that hideous hacking cough every morning. Whereas the majority of babies who ff don’t have health problems.

I'm not trying to compare FF to smoking but point out how people seem to prefer their own anecdotes to peer reviewed data when it comes to such matters.

It’s obvious what snuggybuugy was saying but some people are desperate to take offence when none was implied. It’s like comparing the tactics used by formula and cig companies. V similar although the product is not.

Well, shazza, there are proven benefits for the mother (which alone would be enough of a reason for the nhs to promote it) but in terms of 'proven' benefits for the baby, raising a child exposes them to a lot of factors that could cause or contribute to allergies, diabetes, leukaemia, obesity etc. Some are genetically determined. So if a child develops leukemia, no one could definitively say that one factor caused it, and it probably didn't because these complex conditions tend to have lots of contributing factors. However, they can say that statistically the brestfed children are less likely to develop these problems. For me that is enough of a link to list reduced risk as a benefit of bf. It's apparently enough for the nhs too. And they don't do such things lightly. The evidence has to be very strong to make the nhs add it to the list of guidance.

The issue we have is that years ago, formula companies were allowed into maternity wards to give new mums free formula. They were fed lies, told that a breastfed baby should only need feeding at often as a FF one, that if the baby needed breastmilk more often than that mum clearly wasn't producing enough, or they had a 'hungry baby' that needed formula. They were warned that if they gave breastmilk they wouldn't be able to tell that baby had had enough and were risking under-feeding. They were told that formula was just as good (which it isn't) because the companies that sell it wanted the profit. Basically, they were taught not to trust their own bodies, that the men in white coats knew what was best for the babies. And as a result the vast majority of women formula fed. And the art of breastfeeding was forgotten. When the later generations discovered that actually, breastfeeding is best for mums and babies, no one remembered how to do it any more. Mums could no longer ask their own mothers, siblings, aunts and friends for help. And of course, any suggestion after the fact that maybe formula isn't quite as good was met with a raft of mum guilt from the previous generations, who then ignored this upsetting data and continued to encourage new mums to FF. And so frightened are we of upsetting anyone that sayings like 'fed is best' are still bandied around, despite the fact that fed is the minimal. Breast is best. And yes, some women cannot breastfeed, and no they should not feel bad about that and yes it can be a lifesaving intervention. But in countries such as Ghana, well over 95% of women breastfeed so unless we are very biologically dissimilar, not many women physically can't breastfeed. The problem with the nhs campaign is that it makes mums want to BF but doesn't give them the support and tools to do so. So you get all of the mum guilt with none of the breastfeeding benefits.

But how much other evidence is taken into account? Given that most babies in the UK are FF it stands to reason that if babies have health problems the likelihood is that they were ff, not that the FF contributed to their health problems.

Ultimately there are benefits to both in the developed world. Breastfeeding is free, it’s convenient once you’ve got it established and it’s natural.

The downsides however are that if you want to bf then you have to be attached to your baby 24/7 while you are establishing a routine, there are no breaks, and you cannot even express for the first few weeks and by the time you do you potentialy end up with babies who refuse to take a bottle anyway. Plus if you struggle to produce milk or if your baby has problems latching that can cause associated health problems in the shorter term.

The benefits of FF are that it’s convenient, you have the product on hand and you can take a break especially in those early days and someone else can feed the baby.

The downsides are that formula costs and is expensive.

The pro’s and cons in the 3rd world differ because of socio-economic factors,access to clean water etc and therefore you cannot make comparisons between the UK and the 3rd world.

memoryofsleep Amazing post 👏🏻 That’s it in a nutshell.

I wonder how many of the people doubting the funny looks you get have actually walked in your shoes. I have insufficient glandular tissue and spent a month trying EVERYTHING to try and establish a supply but nothing worked and my baby has been formula fed since he was 5 days old (and unknowingly starved before then). This was a hugely traumatic event for me and I still feel the need to justify myself when someone asks. Although it's obviously a sensitive subject and I struggle with mum guilt, I have absolutely been judged. Some really insensitive facial expressions and choice of words, people literally turning their back to me to continue their discussion with only the breastfeeding mums effectively isolating me from the group, etc. I had AMAZING support from lactation consultants and midwives during my month of trying to establish supply but it was gone in a flash when all routes had been explored. No one has asked me how I feel about it since. It's bloody hard work breastfeeding and absolutely kudos to those doing it (you have no idea how much I wish I was one of them) but it drives me crazy that the assumption is that I am choosing to formula feed for convenience (also sterilising bottles is not convenient!).

But how much other evidence is taken into account? Given that most babies in the UK are FF it stands to reason that if babies have health problems the likelihood is that they were ff, not that the FF contributed to their health problems.

I don't want to be rude, but are you a scientist or a statistician? Because it's quite arrogant that you think you can spot flaws in the studies that experts in the field have apparently all missed. It's not like no one working on these studies has ever heard of confounding variables or the difficult of causation vs correlation and that you can enlighten them with your superior knowledge.

@summergems is it at all relevant to this thread to go on about how in your opinion there aren’t really any benefits to bf in the U.K.?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4077166/

For those wanting evidence that BF benefits are marginal in the developed world once selection is taken into account. This is the direct study and not someone’s write up of it.

I always see these threads and think formula companies must be rubbing their hands with glee. The “breastfeeding mafia”, how hard/painful bf is, how bf mums never get a break, ff babies sleep longer, how the health benefits of bf are all rubbish and/or restricted to the developing world, how you could “line up a class of children and never tell who was bf or ff”, and now a new one, how tough it is for those poor ff mums who have it so hard they don’t even get free food when their child is in hospital. Such discrimination.

Feb2018

I've been breastfeeding for 9 months and don't love it! I am waiting for 12 months to go cow's milk. Breastfeeding support groups seem OTT and never want to stop this beautiful thing... That I don't find beautiful 9/10 times.

So why are you doing it?

(Genuinely interested)

nutbutter their hands are too busy tapping away on the keyboard I think

their hands are too busy tapping away on the keyboard I think

What does this mean?

I always see these threads and think formula companies must be rubbing their hands with glee

What do you mean, after all formula companies are so benign and caring. For instance, they agree to put that breast is best on every can and advert even though there's no evidence this is true. You'd think they'd challenge this requirement in court, and would definitely win as there's no evidence, but I guess they're just too nice to want to make a fuss like that?

Would you like to engage with the evidence above then lisasimpsonsbff?

Of course formula companies are awful. The way they behave in the developing world is beyond disgraceful. I breastfeed and one of the main reasons I am all for it is that it is eco friendly. I have no reason to big up formula other than that I defend a mother’s right to choose.

None of that is relevant to the relative benefits of breastfeeding in the UK. Most studies showing benefits do not adjust for selection into breastfeeding eg middle class babies are more likely to be breastfed. Thats not to say there’s no evidence that bf has any benefits at all, but the position isn’t clear cut.

I didn’t love breastfeeding either QueenofmyPrinces. It was okay and I was glad I could do it as is planned but it wasn’t hugely special to me as it is to some.

I continued because the baby needed feeding one way or the other, and switching to formula would mean more effort, more expense, and I’d miss out on the health benefits.

I did find that this approach really puzzled some people. They seemed convinced that breastfeeding was inherently extra work, extra hassle, extra pain over the ‘normal’ way to feed babies, so why on earth would anyone do it unless they really really really wanted to to the point of martyring themselves? Which is odd to me but did highlight how much of a formula-centric culture we still are.

Exactly - if formula really was on par with breast milk and there was no difference between them I’d pretty sure that formula companies would go all out to present this research to the public in order to line their pockets. There’s a reason this isn’t happening and it’s because there is a big difference between the two in terms of what is best for babies. They certainly wouldn’t be putting “Breast is best” type messages on their tins if it wasn’t actually true would they?

@Mctufty that study was :
a) limited to the US using socioeconomic factors and race issues that are different in the UK. The first sentence is 'Breastfeeding rates in the U.S. are socially patterned'. You would need to find out if that is true in the UK and whether how it is socially patterned here is the same as there. The US also has a higher BF rate than the UK. You can't just expect the findings to be applicable here.
b) merely uses the results of the national longitudinal survey of youth- any measures of health or wellbeing not noted within this will not show up

There are other shortcomings, but I have a baby to see to. 🙂

I didn’t love breastfeeding either QueenofmyPrinces. It was okay and I was glad I could do it as is planned but it wasn’t hugely special to me as it is to some.

There’s a woman I work with who hates breast feeding and is quite vocal about how disgusting it is but she still BF both her children.

I once asked her why she chose to BF if she hated it so much and she said she did it because she knew it was the ‘right’ thing to do for the baby. She said that she had found BF’ing a bit repulsive and that with each child she had literally counted down the days until she could give them cow’s milk at 12 months of age.