To wonder why "cry it out" works?

[chocahoop]

I've heard people say that cry it out only works because babies then learn that no one will come so there is no point in crying, but surely that's nonsense? Surely babies don't wake up in the middle of night and sadly think to themselves "oh I may as well go back to sleep as no one bothered to come last time".

I'm curious as to why it does work tbh as it goes against all my mothering instincts yet I am jealous of people who's children sleep through the night and don't seem to be feeling any ill effects of being left to cry it out.

Read Margot Sunderland ‘The Science of Parenting’ (or ‘What every Parent needs to Know’ - same book, different title)

Of course that's how it works!

Re OP first paragraph - Watch "A two year old goes to Hospital" on youtube. Also there is an advert for nspcc saying "....is a quiet baby. He knows when he cries no-one will come"

CIO seems cruel to me.

Maybe this sounds wishy washy but I think anything that goes against our instincts should be avoided. There's a reason we have instincts.

I live in Asia and crying it out would be unthinkable here, and yet most people I know can fall asleep anywhere (subway, bus, park bench, classroom, work meeting - public sleeping is pretty normal).

I don't think going to a crying baby stops them being able to sleep, at least, it didn't with my daughter.

Got the Nspcc quote wrong. YT "Miles is a Quiet Baby"

My mum's friend fostered babies. My mum said it must be sad listening to them cry. Her friend said no, the saddest were the babies that didn't cry cos they knew no one would come. They didn't even cry in the day for milk

Just to say I'm not considering this method, my two are older and sleep ok now, but I always wondered about why it works. I can understand that prolonged ignoring of crying would mean that a baby wouldn't bother to cry but many people say they let their baby cry themselves to sleep once and then they self settled and slept through the night from then on!

Someone I was talking to the other day let their one year old cry for half an hour! That is a LONG time isn't it. Seems horrible.

That's exactly why it works. I work with babies and I've undergone training about their brain development, and it's absolutely true.

There is a thing called Toxic Stress, when a baby's brain is flooded with stress hormones for a long time and they are not soothed (continuously, not like when you can't get them out of the car seat because you're driving), it means the baby's brain gets wired differently and they stop responding to stress in the same way.

That's my understanding of it anyway. I would never do CIO, as a PP said, if it goes against your instincts don't do it.

But we're not talking about neglected babies here, this is quite a common method of sleep training and I'm sure these babies still cry when teething/ill

OP - Many ppl do consider it to be neglectful of the baby's needs.

Crying because of pain and crying for someone to soothe an emotional need are different.

Babies brains are developing neural pathways continually and if the need for attachment isn't fulfilled it will develop a different, avoidant pathway. As a Pp says, the cortisol being released when a baby is distressed and not having help to regulate its emotions will have an impact. I believe that any prolonged crying (which is the baby's only way of communicating a need) is ignored it has a significant impact on the baby's developing brain.

Even if you don't believe that a short bout of cio sleep training will affect a baby on an attachment level, is it worth the risk?

I've just had a thought - it might not be that the babies think 'no one will come so I might as well go back to sleep' but more 'I'm awake and lonely and afraid but no one will come so there is no point in trying to get attention'

In other words, these babies might be waking up just as frequently as they were before, but because they aren't crying, their parents think that the CIO has magically worked. And they eventually do go back to sleep, by themselves because it is night and they are tired.

I read somewhere that when babies cry for a long period and are not responded to their brains decide something has happened to their mother and she's not coming back. They then make a different cry, trying to alert any other human that they are here. When that doesn't work they go quiet to avoid predators as their brain decides something has happened to everyone and they're in a dangerous situation.

I'm atough mum by all current standards of society, yet despite complete utter exhaustion and babies who didn't sleep through the night until they were 3yo and 18months, I could never ever let my kids go back to sleep crying. Like you it went against all my instincts.

I was really surprised when a friend of mine who is so much more mumsy than I, even now with her older teenagers had no qualms at letting her kids cry themselves back to sleep when they were babies. To be fair, her kids don't seem emotionally traumatised but I still wouldn't do anything different because it my heart and soul, crying was my children telling me that they were either scared, upset or in pain, and to me, that's when you need your mum most and I could not voluntary ignore them believing this no matter how desperate I was, even at times ending up crying with them out of desperation.

There is a world of difference between a baby being left to cry for hours and sleep training.

It works because the baby gets so exhausted they fall into a fitfully sleep. I don’t like that method. I use the pick up put down method. You giving comfort and reassurance but also letting them figure it out too.

If i were in my bedroom crying and nearest and dearest were in a room next door ignoring me and I couldn't get out the bed..... I would simply cry myself to sleep. Some may call this a success .... I would not!

I live in Asia and crying it out would be unthinkable here, and yet most people I know can fall asleep anywhere

To be fair though this is because of their gruelling schedules! I lived in Japan for a while and soon found myself doing the same! Even though I wouldn’t do that here.

I don’t think a baby being left to cry at night is going to have the same effect as them being neglected 24/7. If someone is picking up their crying baby during the day then surely the baby learns someone will come, if it’s not night time. That’s different to learning that no one ever comes.

That being said both mine slept through easily without crying so I never needed any sort of sleep training. But I wouldn’t judge someone who, exhausted and at the end of their tether, tried this method.

It is neglect.

Read 'Why Love Matters' about the effect of cortisol on the developing brain.

Neither of my babies were left to cry, in fact neither of them cried much at all because they were never put down (sling/co-sleeping).

There is a world of difference between a baby being left to cry for hours and sleep training.

Yes. CIO worked for us. We were desperate as DS was waking every 60 to 90 mins and would only go back to sleep on the breast. The Ferber method allowed him to learn how to fall asleep on his own. Previously he could only fall asleep on me, then as he would naturally wake during sleep cycles he would freak out and wake up. The crying when training was no worse than when we would hold him/sing to him/stay in the room - anything other than breastfeeding. He is more rested and happier since. He still wakes up crying occasionally but it's normally something like a bad dream or teeth and I comfort him. I'm fact I'm still doing a night feed which is even grand under the Ferber method.

Neither of my babies were left to cry, in fact neither of them cried much at all because they were never put down (sling/co-sleeping).*

Sorry but smug comments like this are super irritating. Sometimes babies cry even when you're holding them!

There is a huge difference between neglect and leaving babies to cry for ages and not meeting their needs and leaving them to cry for about 15mins to teach them it’s time to go to sleep!!

Also PP alluding to sleep trained babies never crying because they've learned that no one will come - definitely not on my case. As per my first post he'll still cry if something is up and cries during the day when tired/frustrated/hungry like most babies

Sigh - another thread of nonsense about sleep training. I assume all the smug ‘I never left my baby to cry even for a minute’ people on this thread would have preferred me to harm myself thanks to PND than do a bit of gentle sleep training. These threads enrage me because gentle sleep training quite literally saved my sanity. A few points:

Sleep training does not always equal cry it out
Sleep training does not always entail leaving babies to cry for long periods
Sleep training can help everyone sleep better. It’s nonsense that sleep-trained babies sleep ‘fitfully’
Leaving a baby to cry for a short time is infinitely preferable to having a mother who is incapable of caring for it thanks to sleep deprivation.

If you can function on almost no sleep, great - carry on. NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU.

I find discussions like this fascinating. My son cried all the time (bar a couple of hours in the morning) as a baby. We saw doctors etc but no illnesses found, so we just persevered. I had to leave him crying many times every day to cook, go to the bathroom etc. There was no way of not putting him to sleep crying as he was never not crying. He turned in to a happy grinning toddler and an affectionate intelligent child.