To wonder why "cry it out" works?

[chocahoop]

I've heard people say that cry it out only works because babies then learn that no one will come so there is no point in crying, but surely that's nonsense? Surely babies don't wake up in the middle of night and sadly think to themselves "oh I may as well go back to sleep as no one bothered to come last time".

I'm curious as to why it does work tbh as it goes against all my mothering instincts yet I am jealous of people who's children sleep through the night and don't seem to be feeling any ill effects of being left to cry it out.

It's a miracle! MIL just commented on how "attached" and "in love with" me my DS is. He survived the emotional abuse of three nights of the Ferber method.

I personally think that 5 minutes is way too long.
I think that the right amount of crying is however long it takes for someone to notice you, make sure it is safe for them to, then hug you.

Adults and babies.

If I was crying and my DH sat there and left me crying for 5 minutes the thread would be full of LTB messages.

Why different with babies?

A person is a person, no matter how small.

Now, after having suffered sleep deprivation for over a year I am NOT going to judge what people do to manage and cope, but I equally don't want to be told it is absolutely ok.
We all know what it is, sometimes needs must, but don't dismiss the truth.

I sometimes shout at my DH. It is not right and I won't make excuses. Stress and lack of sleep, fine. I take it and I try not to do it again, I don't say oh, it doesn't matter he will be fine.

And threads like this are always divided, because either you agree or you don't.

I don't for myself but I can't care what my neighbour does because we all have different challenges.

@ChocolateCard YES!
And I am sure my mum would say "I did it with mine are they turned up fine"
Yet all her children have been in therapy/ meds for the past 10 years
Go figure

She says it is because we "stress too much"

It’s so frustrating to realise how many people are getting to adulthood with varying degrees of psychological problems because their parents never understood how neural pathways develop in infants

I completely agree with this. My parents were part of a cio brigade (but they were almost neglectful in other ways too - maybe not enough to warrant social services involvement but definitely in a ‘cultural norm’ way. I have had mental health issues my whole life. Low self esteem, anxiety etc etc
I just won’t even take the chance with DS so I wouldn’t do sleep training. He can stay in bed with me until we feel ready as a family for him to move into his own room.

However, we only have one child. DH is very supportive and DS only wakes once or twice a night for a breastfeed and goes back to sleep. He is one. So, other than the 6 weeks of hell we had around 4 months - I’ve never been on my knees with tiredness.

Ethel you have a child who sleeps well from your description. As a CIO advocate I see zero reason why anyone in your position would consider it anyway.

I’ve been on many threads like this, trying to explain that the brain does not fully develop in the womb.

The thousands on neurological pathways we have as adults develop AFTER we are born.

The experiences you have in the first 12 months of your life will shape the person you become more than any other period.

This doesn’t mean that being left to cry once for 10 minutes will result in a severe attachment disorder.

It means that everybody’s neurology develops differently as a result of that first year.

To a certain extent, it’s what makes us human.

However, some parents believe that because they have walking, talking, fully-functioning adult children, then leaving them to cry when they were babies must have ‘done them no harm’. This unfortunately is a gross misunderstanding of the scientific evidence as we understand it, and I wish it was something that Health Visitors & Midwives were better trained in.

Beautifully put ChocolateCard.

I always imagined that doing cio would make babies scared to go to bed but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Chocolate....I am not clear what you are saying? Is it that we all react to stuff differently so don't take any chances in that first 12 months? I know my parents would have used CC but neither myself or my 3 brothers have been left emotional needy from that but are you saying that is by luck and we might have been so not worth risking?

But Hope, you would rightly be annoyed with your husband if he let you cry for 5 minutes, but I bet you wouldn’t be crying because your cup isn’t the green one and your socks are just so wrong.

I’m not really sure a baby crying is comparable to an adult doing so! I cry when I’m in profound emotional distress. My twins spent the first 50% of their first 12 months crying, because... well, who the hell knows?

Didn’t half cry less once I’d sorted out their sleep mind

Beyond, a toddler crying from frustration because their socks don't match is obviously different to an infant crying because they need comfort and are not being responded to, and will not evoke the same feeling of abandonment.

Tangina Oh I agree, I was just pointing out that it’s not helpful to compare children crying to adult crying. I would only by crying at bedtime if there was something very, very wrong. My children will sometimes cry at bedtime because they’re overtired and their duvets aren’t tucked in quite right. They’re not feeling abandoned, they’re feeling tired, and they need to be left alone to go to sleep.

Not to say sometimes aren’t genuinely upset and don’t genuinely need a cuddle; sometimes they do. I just don’t think comparing them to adults is valid!

@Beyondtheshore I think what @TanginaBarrons says explains it.

About cups and socks, well I know for us that is a silly thing but for a small person in a small world that can matter. I give mine choices. Because there are certain things I am not compromising on (car seat, teethbrushing, poo clean up...) I ask him to choose clothes or cups or whatever small choices are safe for him to do.
It is very frustrating for them to have no choice on anything.

If he has a tantrum about wellies, well those are the only ones we have. I am still not leaving him to cry about it, I will tell him unfortunately there is mo choice. So no, I dont just let him cry and he doesnt much anyway.

Different age, different needs, but the need for comfort is there at age 0,1,25,50,84. Just look at all the work being dones with patients with dementia and the similarities with children in terms of empathy and such

And @Beyondtheshore , during pregnancy and beyond, I probably have cried becAuse I put on non- matching socks (

I’m not saying I wouldn’t comfort my child in real distress - of course I would. I just mean that in most (normal, well adjusted, non pregnant adults), crying equals something pretty big. In children it sometimes does, of course. But it sometimes equals something pretty little, and I know that with mine interacting with that kind of crying tends to escalate rather than help. Especially when they’re tired and just need to go to sleep.

But each to their own - all children are different etc!

Hmmm I have done controlled crying.
I don't pretend to think it can't do any harm at all..
However usually controlled crying last 3 nights. I really doubt that 3 nights of CC can cause lifelong attachment problems. Our neurological pathways are always experiencing change.

I used a form of cry it out. On both kids. I would always get up to them initially, but if they were just messing around I would put them back down. If they cried, I would ignore and just watch on the monitor.
Obviously, if they were poorly I would stay with them. It’s not always used in a brutal way.

Choca it did with my brother, my dad and stepmum did the proper cry it out/ignore him until he went back to sleep thing when he was about 18mo and he used to be terrified of bedtime :/ I thought it was normal/their choice at the time, I'd be horrified now. However they are a different generation to me and made several parenting choices I'd never make, and my brother is now (nearly) grown up, well adjusted, normal happy healthy sporty teen so long term? I don't know.

And I don't think you need to leave a child crying in a cot to be able to understand that some of their cries mean different things, but for me, crying always deserves comfort and it doesn't matter if I think it's over something insignificant. I've definitely cried (as an adult) because of things like my socks being wrong or the mug I wanted being dirty, not because I'm a spoiled princess but because I was in a time of great stress and those were the straw that broke the camel's back. Why do we think infants and young children aren't distressed, just because they cry more easily than adults do?

But that said I am a bit more laid back with my second WRT crying - with my first I always rushed in to fix it all the time and I don't know that he necessarily needed that. For me to be there, yes. To have a boob in his mouth? Maybe not, always. I don't let DS2 cry it out or ignore him ever but if he's right next to me and is a bit grumbly falling asleep I'll try a comforting sssh noise and stroking rather than rushing to feed him constantly.

I remember as a teen my older sister and her husband using the cry it out rubbish on my oldest nephew. He was crying for almost an hour and it wasn't just the one night. I find it barbaric.