Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

flamingo I'm white too.

But if you're white in a white majority country, you don't experience racism, so you wouldn't know, would you?

Easy to say there's no racism when it's not directed against you.

And nice way to (attempt to) victim blame.

Yes that's true I have moved from london to rural area due to financial area. Apart from transport ,my daughter overlooked in many areas in school as only Asian in school. She gets comments such as "why your skin like chocolate "or "your skin like poo "and "do you go to brownie because your colour is brown" .Complaints to school utterly waste of to time as they try to cover up things. I still miss london as nobody looks like you as alien when you have to travel in bus.

I live in The North, in an area that used to be full of mill towns and isn’t too far from the areas that I think OP is considering.
I can’t comment on racism as I’m white so haven’t experienced it, however my dc don’t go to a “crappy” school at all. There are some excellent schools here. My dc have friends of various ethnicities and they all seem to get along well. You certainly wouldn’t get stared at in the street and I very much doubt anyone would treat your dc a certain way due to their skin colour, it wouldn’t be unusual.
I can see how a small rural village might not be ideal and I don’t think you want to live in inner city Bradford OP but there are plenty of places up North that are neither of those things where your ethnicity wouldn’t make you stand out at all.

Haha im not "victim blaming" at all.

You cant seriously think you can know more about my life and the street i live in than i do because im white.

I live in a predominantly white middle class town. I’ve grown up here and worked in London, I have a strange perspective because although I’m mixed race with a white English dad I look Asian. My white dad raised me and my siblings as if we were English and white and it actually throws me sometimes when people treat me differently simply because of the colour of my skin. I’ve never been to my mothers country.

I actually don’t really care but I have to remember when people ask me questions like are you Muslim, I didn’t think you could eat pork/drink/you must be Hindu then, oh dear god it’s fine but it don’t half make me cringe inside when they go through their list of who I am according to them.

I also recently got asked in my local park if I was here on a day trip.
If I override all of the above though I do enjoy living here. My dh is white and dd is mixed looking. He has the other side when people don’t think she’s his etc. He had absolutely no idea the kind of racism that goes on until he was with me though.
The other day someone asked in the local gym if the meat was halal. The young kids at the desk looked blankly and said they have no idea what they’re talking about. My dh was a bit surprised they didn’t understand.
Working locally hasn’t really affected me but it’s much much easier for me to get a job in London without explaining who I am where I’m from blah blah.
I do actually get a little bit scared going into rural areas and went to a farm shop recently with my dh and got stared at round the whole shop by quite a few men in tweed. I would never move to that rural area that’s for sure! My dh is a country person though so again as PP are saying, not everyone fits into one mould but life is easier when you’re less worried about these things !

Also from a northern mill town. Growing up I saw some racism but also saw this from the Asian community when I became friends with their daughters or nieces. This was extremely rare but I went supporting some friends at a demonstration and as the only white person i had to be escorted away by police at 15 as the speaker turned on me. Anyway, I moved to a northern city and am in a large northern town on the outskirts. I’d not noted any racism for about 13 years until the last one. I’m now working back in a small mill town and it seems it’s still evident there. The school my children go to is predominantly white but with about 1/3 of children from other backgrounds so my children have never asked any questions as I feel is right.

My advice would be to try and move to the edge of one of the cities, that way you wouldn’t be losing too much of your city life, the schools certainly where I am are good and I can walk a good 7 miles from my house through splendid Moor land.

I think we come from the same place OP and whilst I am white British, I would share your concerns if I was you.

I think it is different from place to place so it’s hard for people to say without knowing where you are thinking of moving to. My DB lives in a very small village in Hampshire where he and another guy are the ‘only Jew and the only black’ in the village. That’s it as far as diversity goes. They and their families are both very happy there and both are involved in community events and initiatives. It’s the least likely place I’d expect minorities to have a good time of things but there you go. Can you say where it is you are thinking of moving so you can potentially get better info?

@discopisco I slept on this and I wanted to raise some things on covert racism.

If posters read my previous posts I talked about a don't give a shit attitude - I'll teach my kids why they are different etc and that doesn't change.

So I mentioned we live in a predominantly affluent white area but Asians are moving in a I am of Asian heritage.

I find that the Asian mums stick together at school - I find that even though I have friends across both groups neither group invite me to events. Eg the Asian mums many that don't drink will mainly do cinema or restaurant trips. The white English mums would do a trip to Ascot, evening drinks in the local pub. Apart from class (end of year or Xmas drinks) people who I class as friends cut me out. I feel torn as I don't want to lose 'friends' in either camp but neither do I have the time to invest in both hence missing out.

My daughter colours my skin in brown and asks for a peach pencil for her skin. Yes they are mixed heritage but are most definitely brown! They are young yet and my eldest enjoys celebrating festivals and goes to a language school she's picking up bits of my first language. What do I miss for my kids living in an area with a small Asian community? I miss the everyday availability of Asian produce - I miss them not going into the shops and learning about different veg and spices - I regret that seeing a black person is very unusual for them e.g we watched Elephant Orphanage on television and my eldest age 6 asked why are those people so black mummy - where have I failed her? Is it this bubble that we grow up in. Is it my chameleon nature - I switch on the 'brown' for the Asian mums speak the lingo get all traditional. Amongst the white mums my middle classness comes out - we holiday in the right parts of France. We eat in the right restaurants.

At times I feel I have lost myself living in this bubble.

OP what about a Northern city rather than small town? Or is that too far from family? I live in a Northern city and the part I live in is very multi cultural, state schools are great, and houses are fairly cheap (very cheap compared to London).

However there are other parts of the city that have problems with integration (generally where there's been a sudden large influx from one country) and not so good schools, so you'd need to do your homework. Good luck with the decision!

Its also sad that because we don't live in london its obviously assumed were all backwards racist knob heads.
It's not that. Let me try to explain with numbers.
Let's assume that in London 1% of population are knob head racists, and in the Smallville the percentage is 2% (I am making the numbers up, obviously). On surface and from the statistical perspective, it looks like there is not much difference - only 1 additional "racist" person per 100. Similar stats as to the crime rate or drug use, for example, hardly would scare anyone away from Smallville.
However, people on the receiving end of racist behaviour are exclusive targets. If London has 20 potential targets out of the same 100 people, and Smallville has 2, it means that a targeted Londoner gets 5% of an single knobhead's attention, while Smallville can boast a 1-to-1 ratio. So, from the personal perspective, it is 20 times "worse" in Smallville.

flamingo

Implying people are racist towards me due to my attitude and not theirs is victim blaming, yes.

"You cant seriously think you can know more about my life and the street i live in than i do because im white."

No, I think anyone who is not white knows more about racism in the UK than you do because you're white.

I live in a village in Cumbria. Although I wouldn't call it very multicultural, there are certainly a fair number of Asian people who live in the wider area. Plus the fact that we are on the doorstep of the Lake District means that people are used to seeing tourists from all over the world. I know that's not the same as having a high level of diversity in the resident population, but it does mean that locals are unlikely to bat an eyelid.
The schools are good round here. There are grammars just over the border in Lancaster and there's a local comp which is part-boarding and takes boarders from all over the world, so it's a little pocket of multiculturalism.
I don't think it's racist here (although as a white person I wouldn't necessarily be a great judge of that). I teach in secondaries and primaries and the black and Asian kids seen to fit in fine. Unlike West Cumbria, we're right near the M6 and there is a lot of influx from other parts of the country. Lots of southerners and people who have moved to the area for lifestyle reasons. I'd recommend it!

I wasnt implying anyone was being racist to you.

I implied that people dont get on with you because of your attitude.

And yes generally im sure they do, but clearly they dont know about specific areas they've never even visited.

If you dont give people a chance and assume they're all racist arseholes because its not London, then yes its probably better to stay in london.

I love loving in the countryside, but I do miss the culture and ‘bustle’ of bigger places. Whilst looking at private schools I’ve noticed that there are more children of Asian descent in local towns, than in the local state school (which are vastly predominately white), so it might be worth looking into that before moving. A lot of people where I live have 1 SAH parent and 1 who works away during the week as there aren’t too many high paying jobs around here. It works for most and there’s a fantastic support network amongst the SAH parents (almost all mums). I live in a beautiful 5 bedroom house with a pool... for the same price that my sibling lives in a 1 bedroom flat in London. The thing is, neither of us would swap. You need to make the right decision for you! I recommend touring schools before selecting your area though.

I grew up in Australia - my dad is of Irish descent with fair skin and blue eyes but my mum is of Portuguese-Malaysian and English descent. I have olive skin although it is lighter than my mum’s.
We moved 45mins from London where most people would be considered ‘white’. In filling out questionnaires I also tick the ‘white’ box and never thought about my colour until I moved here. I’m the colour people try and achieve through fake tan. And while I have brown eyes and brown hair - my eyes are hazel and my hair is mid-brown.
But I actually get what the op means. It has only been a few people but I have to my surprised experienced racism. Most of it has been from children who think I am (and therefore one of my children who has my colour skin) Indian. It’s clear these children aren’t familiar with different nationalities and that to them everyone with olive skin is Indian. But it’s also clear these children see Indian as inferior which made me very sad - but also made me understand more about racism and why the OP would be asking about this.
OP - you are going to get racism everywhere in the world. Just give your children the language to deal with it and show them that they should not limit their life choices to try and avoid it. Stand proud. Yes you may experience racism - but don’t forget for every racist person there are a lot more people who are not racist.
Also try www.findmyschool.com before you move to read the school reports before you choose a house. The council website will show you what houses are in which catchment
area.

I think it would depend where you moved to, lots of places in the North are now very multicultural, Leeds for example, there are some lovely rural places in North Leeds that have families from different cultures.

Stay in London. You're absolutely right - the rural schools are crap, there is nothing to do and the place is full of country bumpkins. You wouldn't fit in.

Stay where you feel most comfortable - I’m white & wouldn’t move to a predominantly Aisan area because I just wouldn’t fit in.

flamingo

"I implied that people dont get on with you because of your attitude." - my attitude that I don't want my daughter being called a chink at school?

I never said anywhere people don't get on with me, so not sure why you thought that.

Racism is something you've never had to consider. Yes, it is uncomfortable to deal with. It is uncomfortable to think about. No one wants to think that their town has racism. But there is racism everywhere. In London. In Scotland. In the north and the south. And in some areas, it's more prevalent. Can you really blame any parent for worrying about it? And for worrying that people like you don't even take it seriously.

Unfortunately, for many of us, it is something we have to think about before we move anywhere, and often, before we leave the house.

Asian even.

The area(s) I've had a look at have a number of schools that 'require improvement'

So look at different areas.

Or is this one of those "London is amazing and everyone else is living in a hovel and has no culture" threads?

I live in the NE for a very international company with employees from all around the globe (all professionals). I'm white but have managed BME employees and we have discussed the racism they've experienced. What they have told me is that they suffer more overt racism (beatings, spitting, abuse in the street) in the more deprived areas and towns and are safer in the middle class enclaves. I think depending how rural you go will affect how you are perceived, somewhere very rural where your kids are the only brown children in the school you may experience the kind of curiosity and ignorance that should have died out years ago. A naice commuter village where there are other BME professionals not such an issue. A posh suburb of Leeds even better.

hisaishi

No, because i agree with that (though honestly i havent heard that term used in at least 10 years!)

You come accross as thinking youre better than everyone else.

I havent said there isnt racism in this town AT ALL. Im sure there is and like ive said there is plaves places in this town i wouldnt live because it is like going back 30 years.

Im saying where i personally live, its diverse and i would be confident that ops family could move here without issue.

If you think thats bullshit, fine.

If op won't even consider living somewhere rural because shes sure shell encounter racism then id say stay in london.

If youre not going to give people a chance because youre sure theyre all racist then imo that's a little intolerant too.