Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

@antigon. I am white British. I grew up in an Arab country. I came back when I was 15. The term host community is generally taken to refer to the indigenous peoples in contrast to those who immigrated here/ are recent descendants. Some immigrants appreciate this country, others less so and choose to live in areas heavily populated by other immigrants of same origins. Possibly because they fear racism and also because they fear their children becoming overly similar to mainstream British society.

It was just the page before some suggestions if you are white you will not really be able to describe the experience but I might have misconstrued it and you are right that no one has said don't post on the thread if you are white.

We are in a rural area, and one of my DGDs goes to a tiny village school. She is white, and her best friend is mixed race. There is also a black child in the school. I have never seen a hint of racism - and the parents mix happily at pick-up time.

I would not see this as a prime consideration. Indeed, in the sort of small school you would find in a rural area, firmly stamping on any hint of racism is much easier as there are fewer children and it would be more obvious if it occurred.

There are no black or Asian people in our tiny local village - except for the Asian couple who have recently moved in to run the pub. They have speedily become part of the community and I have not heard a single negative or racist statement from anyone.

I would go for it if you feel that this is the right thing for your family and you can find work for you, or both of you, there.

Lots of good luck with your house search!

Equally ghanagirl how can anyone say somewhere is racist without ever having been?

I have moved to a rural area recently and it’s just difficult to fit in if you are not from the area. Rural communities stick together. Usually still have family local. School friends, friends. Aunts, uncles etc. Etc. So they are quite contained and don’t need to make new friends. Obviously a bit of a generalisation.

I'd think long and hard before making that decision OP.

I'm in one of the southern suburbs of Manchester which some have suggested.

Some ethnic diversity in that there are Jewish and Asian communities so we have synagogues and a mosque / cultural centre. But people don't really mix. One of the local primaries which is more ethnically split apparently had a PTA and a Muslim PTA as they have different values. Not sure if that's still the case. Plus there was a huge outcry when there was an application to relocate and expand the mosque.

I doubt if anyone would be rude; they would be perfectly pleasant. But they wouldn't befriend you either. Much more subconscious racism.

I’d say the same to you, wizzy — one sole Asian who does a lot of community stuff in a village is not a test of that village’s racism, in my opinion. When five Asian families move in and are busier with work and life stuff than you are, and don’t volunteer for a lot of stuff, are they penalised for integrating less?

Some immigrants appreciate this country, others less so and choose to live in areas heavily populated by other immigrants of same origins. Possibly because they fear racism and also because they fear their children becoming overly similar to mainstream British society.

Or maybe, as others posters have mentioned because society in the U.K. can be ‘quite contained’ and divided into groups which means said immigrants can never actually fit in.
That’s certainly has been my experience, despite been married to a british man, having british children and having lived in the same town for 20 years.
To be able to integrate into a community, that community also needs to allow them in.
Fwiw my dcs, who are british, are born in Britain and have never known anything else other than the town where we live are also been made to feel ‘different’. It’s that entrenched.

I doubt if anyone would be rude; they would be perfectly pleasant. But they wouldn't befriend you either. Much more subconscious racism.

That too, with bells on!

A few people mentioned looking down the end of the metropolitan line, obviously not as cheap as up north but you’ll get a more rural villagey feel with still having good transport links to central London, good schools etc. Definitely bigger house than central London. Areas like Pinner have plenty of Asians and are much more peaceful and quiet than central London.
We (mixed Asian and white family) moved out here from a zone 2 flat quite a few years ago and has been a great decision for us

Btw, I don’t think there is any issue with white people commenting on racism.
But I do think it might be worth for them to also LISTEN to people who aren’t white or are foreigners about their own experiences.
Because they are th épines who actually LIVE those issues not seen them from the outside iyswim.

So in the case of the one couple running a pub in a small village, from the outside, it might look like they are well liked and integrated, I personally wouldn’t assume that THEY feel integrated and welcomed in the village. They might well feel just tolerated because of what they are bringing (a pub that most people will enjoy iyswim)

@whataboutbob

I am white British. I grew up in an Arab country. I came back when I was 15. The term host community is generally taken to refer to the indigenous peoples in contrast to those who immigrated here/ are recent descendants.

I think it's pretty telling that you didn't grow up here yet you still see yourself as indigenous host in this country yet minority immigrants (and children of immigrants who were born here) should, in your words show 'appreciation and adoption of host values'.

Surely your 'host values' are Arab? And if not, why not? Why didn't you adopt the 'host values' of the Arab people where you grew up?

And you still haven't said how you show appreciation for the opportunities this country has given you.

@sheet82 the OP isn’t referring to covert racism though is she? Covert racism exists everywhere, even where she already lives so it’s fairly irrelevant to her situation.

flamingofridays

Proved my point there didnt you.

Iwould advise you to stay in london with all the other self important arseholes.
So despite your comments that OP is stereotyping people who don’t live in London you’re now saying everyone in the most diverse city in Europe are self important arseholes.
You’ve proved that you are both insecure and bigoted 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

I can just imagine the warm welcome you’d extend if OP decides to move into your lovely street!

@Antigon. It was made abundantly clear to us by the country that we were outsiders. My parents were on 1 year renewable visas conditional on their contracts being renewed. Foreigners were not able to buy property. We were singled out in the street and frequently had stones thrown at us. The Jewish population which had been there in some cases for close on 2 millennia were told in no uncertain terms to get out or face violence and possibly death. I could go on but don't want to derail. The premise of my parents moving there was entirely different to that of persons immigrating here.

We live in rural southwest. In an predominantly white middle class village. There are a few families of different heritage (less than 10). I am pretty sure you would be welcomed here with open arms. In the same way that all new comers who are friendly and want to engage in village life are.
Having said that I am I guess speaking from a position of a white person in a predominantly white village. But I have never witnessed or over heard any negative attitudes or remarks towards any of the non white families here. And from what I have seen or know they are included in everything they want to be, the same as anyone else would be.

OP I am foreign, tick the "White NonBritish" box on those questionnaires.
I lived in London and now I live in rural South of England.
I can count with both hands the number of non-white British people here.
And it worries me, yes. Because all the children my son play with are white and I see lack of diversity as a big fail.
I wish it was more diverse here.
I think it depends on the area.
2 of my friends have mixed race children and are very happy, no issues, but I think I wish it was more like London.
Maybe visit the area first or look for local groups?

OP I know what you mean, it comes across snobby in writing but my concerns were the same as yours. We moved from London to a village just outside Winchester and absolutely love it. We’re only an hour from London when we fancy a bit of the action. Although it’s predominantly white here, we have lots of friends from all over the world and they all comment that they experience no racism. It’s not cheap but it does have a nice feel to it. Ticks all the boxes for us. Definitely cheaper than London though. Best of luck.

To add:

• we are white so I can only speak for friends but people who moved here from London are ten a penny so it has quite a progressive feel to it, If that’s the right description. DH continues to commmute to London Bridge every day and actually his commute is only 30 mins longer than the tube journey when we lived in North London when you factor in Tube journey, walk to tube etc etc

I'll tell you about my small ex mining village. Its mainly white British people, very working class. Recently there has been an influx of Romanian immigrants come over, and the racism has been unbelievable on a local social media group. Basically calling them thieves, they should go back to where they came from etc etc. If I could afford to move out of this hell hole into a city I would.

@whataboutbob
Yes minorities make contributions of course, and that is abundantly celebrated in the media and in public discourse. But there are real advantages to being here and sometimes that doesn’t get stated. It has been said that when people emigrate to the US, they more readily value and adopt US values and identity. Moving to the UK does not quite translate the same appreciation and adoption of host values. The discourse is framed in terms of what the host culture should do to make migrants more comfortable.
So because there are advantages of living in the UK we have to put up with racism?
I’m sure there were advantages to working in an Arab country lots of people go there to escape paying tax, we’re you greatful?
Also my parents like most from the Caribbean were invited here to prop up the NHS and work on London transport so no I’m no more grateful than any other British person because in fact my parents drummed it into me that I needed to work twice as hard as my white classmates.
I did which is why I escaped my working class background and live in a large four bedroomed house in a beautiful leafy part of London

I’m from Clitheroe and in my experience there’s still a lot of “casual” racism, in a very old-fashioned, ignorant, “bet she makes a good curry though” way. Yeah, there are a lot of good schools, but I fear you’d always be “other.” Manchester and Leeds are probably better options.

I was also going to suggest Bristol.
In many areas of Bristol schools are very multicultural. My children have approx 40% BAME children in their school and I've never heard of any problems. We have many languages spoken in the school ( Good at last OFSTED) and you wouldn't stand out at all.
I wouldn't recommend any further west into the West Country as in my experience of working there many people's views are more conservative and traditional and there're a lot of staunch lifelong Tory voters.

I'd recommend BS6 & BS7 in Bristol with BS6 being more diverse because of proximity to hospitals and universities who frequently have BAME employees and employees from other countries.

@Ghanagirl if you read my last post you'll see why I'm not entirely grateful for growing up there ( treatment which in reverse and in Britain would have the police involved and the full force of anti hate crime legislation). I am grateful for growing up with a diversity of nationalities, my parents' jobs and the economic benefits. It was a socialist country so they certainly paid tax. And they worked hard too.