Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

@HebeJeeby - I wish what you said was true, but children can be extremely cruel, especially when their parents are racist, and they hear it at home and pass on.
A friend, also Easter European, used to be a TA primary school for a while. Kids actually asked her a few times why she was there 'stealing jobs'. I have another friend, who is mixed race, and has a white partner, the baby looks 'white', and if you didn't see my friend with darker skin and curlier hair, you wouldn't even know the baby is mixed race. The child is the only one in their primary school in their year who is not 100% white, and kids refer to him as 'the black child'.
It does depend on an area, and school I suppose, but I have not heard many heart warming stories of people moving out of cities and having a great time, and not after Brexit vote especially.

@LadyRenoir, I'm sorry that your friends have had such unhappy experiences, maybe the experiences that I've had at my DD's school are not typical. It is an unusually inclusive and kind school so maybe it's a little bubble in a not very pleasant world. How sad if that is the case.

I’ve not read the thread but as a mum to a mixed race child (and pregnant with another) I wish I hadn’t moved out of London. I’ve never known such casual racism in my life. Would love to go back but just can’t afford it. Feel guiltily I’ve made my child’s life a lot harder then it should have been.

Why are schools outside London crappy? They are here but no worse than many in London and without the violence and knife crime!

There's lots of places where there's significant Asian populations in more rural areas - certainly is high here (around 20%) and feed into an excellent secondary school which is around 30% Asian. For the cost of a London flat you can probably pick up a five bed detached house and it's only an hour on the train to London.

It is quite sad to hear of people's negative experience. We have been in a few placed in the North West and never had any issue. Indeed in the most deprived area of Liverpool the drug dealer next door (white) offered my husband (Indian) his protection if he needed it! My kids have only experienced healthy curiosity about their origin. Maybe we've been v lucky.

Chumsnet

What is wrong with being 'othered'? Absolutely nothing for you. Your choice. When I point out my differences that's fine. But if you ask me a question and I answer with a response you were not expecting why on earth is it okay to ask where I'm really from. If/When I want you to know my history I'll let you know. Accept my answer for what it is. Why the need to delve deeper when I have clearly told you an answer? What about me do you need to know other than I am your new neighbour?
Want to know if I'll be cooking ethnic delights? What to know if I'll be playing my Reggie music too loud, want to assume I smoke weed, want to know if I'm fasting for Ramadan. Taking part in Diwali festivals. On a first encounter that is none of your business as we get to know each other and we're friends, black white pink or indigo, you will know tons about me. But that question is designed to put me in a box. Differentiating me from you. We just met you need to know nothing except dietary requirements for a barbecue that I will attend but probably won't eat at until I know what your kitchen hygiene is like (whether you're white, black, pink or indigo).

Hope that helps.

@anniehm read the thread or go home. The OP has already explained she has already researched the schools in the areas specific to where she is looking at. Not all schools outside of London. Not sure how your indignation was helping her decision making process. Don't worry you were not the only to do it, but there have been summation in recent posts, so it bothered me slightly.

“But that question is designed to put me in a box. Differentiating me from you.”

I bet these sorts of questions are not designed to be anything at all. People are naturally curious about people they don’t know, especially if they’re going to be living next door.

We are all different. You come across as quite hostile in your response here.

The OP described the local schools as “crappy” and it understandably put people’s backs up: some kids don’t have a choice of which “crappy” school they attend. Challenging prejudice whilst displaying it yourself is difficult.

Wanting to shut down conversation is a guaranteed way of feeling unwelcome in the countryside, by the way. We LOVE a chat!

chumsnet I’m goint to guess that you are white british?
Please LISTEN to what others are saying, the non white british, the white immigrants etc... you have no right to tell them how they should feel about your questioning. They are not there to answer your question and satisfy your curiosity. If you wouldn’t ask those questions to anyone else in a first meeting, these questions aren’t suitable for Asian/black/immigrants/whatever either.
If people are telling you those questions are rude, they just are. Please take their word for it rather than trying to placate them telling them how they OUGHT to feel (so you can carry on doing whatever you want rather than being respectful).

It’s is hurtful and rude and sometimes unsettling to have people constantly questioning you, looking at you as if you were a strange beast in a circus, curious to know just ‘how different you are from them’. It doesn’t feel like someone is interested in you and wants to know more about you.

So please listen. They are the ones who can tell you who it feels and if it’s ok or not. You just can’t because you haven’t had the experience for been othered.

As for feeling unwelcome, are you telling me that to be accepted in the countryside you have to bear it all to anyone who is ‘curious’ even if their curiosity isn’t appropriate?
Are you saying that you have tonrespect their lack of boundaries even if they stamp up on your boundaries and make you feel uneasy?

You would never dream to do anything Ike this to another white person. So why do you think it’s ok to do so because the person in front of you looks different?

Please read the thread before you post. I am Indian, by way of Cheshire.

Pickle I agree that you find out who you want in your life.

But it’s quite hard when you only find one person to be in your life because the other ones are judgemental/racist/xenophobic.
It doesn’t make for a nice life when you constantly feel excluded.

My experience is the same than LadyLenoir except it’s not been mixed race but mixed nationality.
My dcs, despite having a white british father and having always lived in the uk, are ALWAYS referred as ‘the French kid’. They are never seen as british :(

@chumsnet I like a chat.

I chat to people about all sorts, tv, books, marvel v DC, time travel, politics, but tell me why, when I answer a question, you're asking 'really' is appropriate? I've answered the question. It makes no sense.

If I say I like Dr Who the best out of all time travellers, why would you question it? And would you? How is my answering a question honestly and accurately shutting down conversation. How is you second guessing me not plain rude?

Why on earth must I bare my soul to fit in, I'm enough of a chameleon at work thanks, no need to fit in on my door step. That's tiring.

I've known my neighbours a couple of years I recently found out her background because it came up in conversation and she wanted me to know. We've invited her and her family to our house and vice versa, her kids once called my husband brown which was hilarious to us but horrifying for them, the kids know our names now. I know she loves Keanu Reeves and his films going as far back as Bill and Ted, I know these things because we have gradually built up a friendship based on our likes and dislikes, not because I know what her heritage is. Good grief. If that is country life by all means keep it.

And if you notice anything hostile it's based on the irritating feature/virtue that you seem to think baring all to strangers is the way to fit in. If that's how to do so, I'll stay on the outs.

As for the crappy schools comment, a) your interpretation of the many offended comments is not how they took it and you know that b) the truth is the truth about schools, she researched schools in the areas and that information is out there. I'm not sure someone should be told off for telling the truth.

I think it’s attitude rather than skin colour that claims you as a country mouse or a town mouse.

I really can’t get my head round the chameleon comments at all - you don’t need to change who you are to fit in; you don’t even need to particularly fit in. But you do need a country mindset, and that’s nothing to do with your complexion.

The need to be a cultural chameleon at work says more about your own cultural insecurities than it does about your workplace. I took Diwali mithai into work last week and it was wolfed down. I’ve worn saris to work events and been showered with compliments. You really don’t need to act white or British - whatever that may mean - to be accepted.

Im referred to as the French one occasionally. I don't care. My kids are French/Indian and have never had any issue. Maybe we're lucky. Maybe, also, we don't really think about it too much and it works out. People judge others for all sorts, focusing on it makes it into a much bigger thing that it is. Imo.

I'm white, but with an accent from an African country where I grew up. A couple of years ago I lived in a very much white upper-class type village where anything 'different' was frowned upon - including me because I wasn't 'English' enough. It was the worst 3 years of my life!

I now live in a very large town in Suffolk with one of the largest populations of white/asian/other in the UK. Everyone gets along and it's lovely . House prices are 1/4 of what they are in London, there's plenty of work around and good schools. Even rural schools here are very good.

If you're worried about standing out and not being accepted, why move somewhere you know that'll probably happen? There are plenty of places where you'll be accepted and welcomed.

I think it's impossible to generalise about 'the countryside'. For example places in the commuter belt of cities may well be full of white people who moved in response to ethnic minorities moving into cities. That's where you'd be more likely to find racism.

In rural places where there's no sizeable ethnic minority population you might get some questions and people won't know as much about different races as they do in cities, but that's not the same as being prejudiced. If anything, people are less likely to have preconceptions about what different races are meant to be like.

It's also largely about class, really. If you're a professional moving to an affluent area you'll be fine. If you're not and move into a rural town with lots of poverty, you might get more hassle.

I think what I'm going to do is take your word for it @chumsnet, at least in regard to you and where you live. However, I will continue to live my worklife based on what I have seen and actually experienced in the workplace as Ive only been working in various places since the early 1990s. And that will be a fair compromise.

OP I know the area around Clitheroe/Higham/Burnley very well. I know people who teach at local schools (not the best) and who went to CRGS. Sadly, the local towns are not in great condition and I think you might find the transition difficult even though the area is familiar.
I don't feel qualified to comment on racism, but as the area has such a high asian population I don't think you would stick out.
I would however think about the reasons you want to move out of London regardless of issues of race.
From your comments makes huge leap I get the feeling you aren't quite ready to make a real rural move, unless the pull of family and familiarity is paramount. Only you can judge.
I would agree with others that there is a whole world between London and Clitheroe.
Leicester has been mentioned. It's a really improving city. Decent shopping and schools, good road and rail links and an asian community which is largely prospering and moving from it's traditional areas into middle class suburbs and villages. Some really lovely countryside on the edge of the city. Possibly best of both worlds. About 2 1/4 hrs drive from Burnley.

oblada there is a difference between been called the French one occasionally and been called the French one all the time

I also think it’s clear that there is a clear division in the U.K. Some places are much more open than others.
Where I live, someone arriving in saris for work would be told how lovely it is by people only to have gossip and comments going on as soon as her back is turned.

Bottom line though is that it’s not because you haven’t experienced anything like this where you live that it’s not the case anywhere else. And that therefore it’s the person fault if they are ostracised because they make a big deal out of nothing.

I live rurally
It’s pretty middle class
It’s very diverse
In a small rural school we have many backgrounds, races, ethnicities and religions. Don’t assume all white people have same religion. Don’t assume all poor people live in cities
You need to broaden your mind

@chumsnet

The need to be a cultural chameleon at work says more about your own cultural insecurities than it does about your workplace. I took Diwali mithai into work last week and it was wolfed down. I’ve worn saris to work events and been showered with compliments. You really don’t need to act white or British - whatever that may mean - to be accepted.

You seem to think your own experience is the same for all minorities. It's really not. Your examples are very shallow too. Eating a few sweets and cooing over a sari does not mean you are accepted (although I'm mot saying you're not).

I know a black girl who was told she had to organise her own leaving do, whilst all her white colleagues had had their leaving dos organised for them.

I know Muslims who have not been invited to work get togethers because it was assumed that they would not want to attend as they don't drink. They ASSUMED. They didn't even ask.

A Muslim man excluded from the work sweepstakes because it was assumed he wouldn't want to take part. Again, not asked.

An Indian colleague was expected to invite everyone to her house and cook them curry. These people had never invited eachother to their houses, but they somehow assumed an Indian woman would want to cook them curry.

I am white. I have lived in a small town in Somerset for 20 years. I first moved from London and then Bristol. I was amazed that there were no black or brown people in the town when I moved. Really none.

Now there are. Nothing like London. Tiny minority. But no racism as far as I can see. Most racist comments are about Polish.

I live in a very diverse Midland city. You come across people from all sorts of backgrounds in all interactions. I am involved in school appeals We take no account of ethnicity in our decisions.