Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

Anyone who cannot understand experiencing racism in these small Northern towns obviously hasnt grown up in them.

You can argue the toss all you like but as the OP says, yes, she experienced daily racism whilst growing up in East Lancs!

The biggie here also isnt just racism - it's also cultural.

Let's face it, other than a big city you won't get the same culture and may experience more small mindedness (which comes with all races)

@whataboutbob
I read your post but the same aplies to those of us who are from ethnic backgrounds but were born and raised in UK you seem to think your suffering is worse, it’s not you just have a sense of entitlement which I don’t my parents told me to work twice as hard I took their advice and things are better for my children but I realise it’s not the case for everyone.
Difference is you automatically think we should be grateful living in UK but it’s okay for you to bitch about your experience because you’re parents were British, they weren’t forced to go there.

I live in rural area, DC’s best friends are half Indian, very small village school 3 x Asian families so not massive but no rascism, just accepted for who they are. As are the parents. It is sad that you have to think about this.

My DH came in for some abuse because of his foreign accent, in a Leics village. He’s white, but the accent was enough. OP, try to choose a place where there are already some Asians, preferably middle-class ones, so that you aren’t an obvious target.

@Ghanagirl- ouch! I think I’ve tried to explain my position, I don’t think my suffering is worse and where is my sense of entitlement? We’ll have to agree to disagree. I just wanted to flag up that white people can have experiences of being rejected and made to feel unwelcome which if reversed would be called racist. I don’t deny that racism exists in the UK. I have also been polite in my language something which you could maybe try to emulate.

I was polite bob just not deferent.

I don’t expect deference. Saying I “ bitch” is not polite.

I'd recommend Leamington in Warwickshire. I grew up there. It's a semi rural large town. (7 miles from Coventry & and Stratford upon Avon) . Cant remember a single racist incident in 26yrs there & I had lots of Asian friends. Its also very leafy/ pretty, I miss the cherry blossom trees! It's expensive tho as the M40 means you can commute to London in 1.5hrs (& there are daily straight thru trains to London Marylebone).

prejudicial generalisations about "outside London" aren't helpful, including that outside London rural areas have 'crappy schools' and will be racist.
This ^^

Are some communities insular and wary of anyone who hasn't got 6 generations in a half mile radius? Yes.
Are there racist people in life? Yes.
Are there some estates in towns where it's very much an EDL heartland of idiots who want Britain to be British and think an overseas trained Doctor is stealing 'their' job when their highest qualification is 3 Fs at GCSE? Yes.

Does that mean that you have metropolitan London and it's brilliance and then some wasteland full of uneducated racists who'll throw bricks through your windows? Of course not.

There's a reason the OP's post has irritated people and it's because it seems based on a view of London vs not London.

The difference between these two ideas is obvious:

1. I live in London but am thinking of moving out. The problem is outside of London every school I've looked at is crap and I dread to think how bad the racism is.
2. I'm in London and considering moving. What sorts of areas are known to be welcoming and multicultural?

i too am from a small mil town and remember the divides and awful atmosphere and live in cheshire now and it is so different - yet not diverse at all. The schools are amazing 16-18 per class, outstanding/ good off stead and very little crime.

My good friends dc are Chinese and there's only been one incident at school which the school dealt with brilliantly.

Because it isn't a diverse area, the kids may ask questions but the class is so small each. child is different and there are no groups, of you see what i mean.

Crime is far. lower in the country than the city but it's all relative and you know your children best.

@whataboutbob
Okay now after making insulting comments about a whole group of people you’re sensitive. It’s an expression I didn’t say you were one.
So typical playing the victim after making bigoted comments.

I’m in Suffolk and I haven’t noticed any problems racially. The community is welcoming to the few different races that live locally.

As others have said, sometimes the problems arise when large numbers of one community live in one area so that others feel threatened by the perceived taking over of that culture if not of British origin.

Maisy except you’ve forgotten the bit where the OP says she has grown up in one town in the north of England and couldn’t wait to get out of there because if racism she experienced.
Maybe her comments were just plainly coming fro. Her own experience rather than a judgemental swipe at anything that isn’t London?

Hi OP

I'm sorry I have put your worst fears out there but I understand just how important this is for you and your family. It is nice to believe that we don't live in a time where you can't live anywhere you want to.

We do have other friends who have fitted in and it's because they kept their Asian identity at home. To the outside world they are no different and they made a huge effort to fit in. So I guess it is possible but it depends so much on the area and what the poeple are like.

We thought by moving not too far we would be with professional, theatre goers and more worldly people yet after living there after 4 years we realised we were surrounded by narrow minded people who barely left their area who had done well by riding out the property boom. They dressed well, had nice cars etc so when we were looking around the area we stupidly thought people who looked ok wouldn't hold such backward views.

Also we were one of few BME families and I think in hindsight the locals were getting annoyed by the 'white flight'

Lastly we were apparently fine to all our neighbours and family. Our move back to London came as a shock but we couldn't stand the subtle racism anymore. So to those who think their BME neighbours are all happy, that might not be the case. Moving is disruptive and costly so I do wonder how many families just put up with it hoping things will change.

One last thing we found odd was that when you are a BME family in a largely white area you end up migrating towards each other as a safety blanket. Or because you feel more comfortable, I don't know really why. But it was really odd and I didn't want to live somewhere we were making friends just because of their skin colour. And in case it didn't come through earlier, we made a huge effort to fit in. We couldn't have done more.

MyBrexitIsIll
And?
I don't judge all towns in a county because one I used to live in was probably 50% shithole. And it would be ridiculous to say any areas within a 3 hour radius of anything close to resembling industry must be 50% shithole because the area I used to live happened to be a bit of a dump in places.

Just like 'I once had an experience in this area so I dread to think what life is like outside of London is like' is silly. Nobody would seriously argue that Somerset, Leeds, Cumbria, Newcastle, Cornwall would be remotely samey in terms of experience. There is zero logical argument to 'this happened in one town so I need to worry about life beyond the m25'.

There's a problem when people extrapolate too far based on one experience in one place.

I live an hour away from London and my children go to a school with a large proportion of children from Asian families and Eastern European families, it is a lovely school and good on Ofsted and the area the school is in is a lovely place to grow up but is not considered by many of mumsnet as it is portrayed entirely different to what it actually is, happy to pm you if you want.

Also we were one of few BME families and I think in hindsight the locals were getting annoyed by the 'white flight'

Sounds like BAME people can't win. If they live in BAME areas they're refusing to integrate and if they move to white areas, the locals are annoyed that they're replacing white families! 😂

It was made abundantly clear to us by the country that we were outsiders. My parents were on 1 year renewable visas conditional on their contracts being renewed. Foreigners were not able to buy property. We were singled out in the street and frequently had stones thrown at us. The Jewish population which had been there in some cases for close on 2 millennia were told in no uncertain terms to get out or face violence and possibly death. I could go on but don't want to derail. The premise of my parents moving there was entirely different to that of persons immigrating here.

What was this hellhole that your parents kept applying for a fresh visa for year after year for 15 years? Tell us so we can avoid it.

I am very very surprised that OP is considering moving back home/so close to home, when it sounded so awful, and she was the only one to escape.

No middle ground option? What about just outside London? Surrey? Berks? Herts?
Quick commute into London. 1/2 an hour, or 40 minutes.
Superb schools. All of them. No poor ones near me. Very very wide variety in ethics and nationalities.
Our school is one of the top secondaries in the country. Probably 1/2 white, the other half, black, Asian, Malaysian, Filipino etc.
Thus no kid comments about another child's colour, ever, because it's so normal.

Have you Moving just a bit? rather than going to the extreme of the other end of the country?

The problem is that it is impossible to advise, you need to research the exact area and decide. For example people are recommending Cambourne, Cambridgeshire. All well and good and Cambridge itself is a very diverse, middle class city but 15 miles outside you find small minded, racist fenland towns that are best avoided. My personal experience of places like Bradford and Oldham is very negative, they are very segregated and I have Asian (Bengali) friends that are shunned in an Asian (Pakistani) area. Personally I would not move to an ex mill town with a lot of uneducated, small minded people. Not very pc but my observation when I visted a few years ago were that there were a lot of inbreed looking weirdos (Asian and White) staring at any incomers or anyone a bit different. Don’t plan on ever visiting again!

@Antigon The UK is quite rare in not having sanguinity as a feature of citizenship. A lot of countries, including within the EU (eg Poland), require you to have the right ethnicity to acquire citizenship - residency is not enough.

By contrast, between c.1915 and 1947 half the world's population was a British subject with the right to live and work in Britain, which I think puts EU freedom of movement into perspective. I don't want to derail the thread though. The OP can live wherever she wants, but I understand why she might want to do her due diligence by visiting the local schools and pubs to get an idea of whether she thinks she could feel at home there.

@Itsear the Fenlands are a whole other kettle of fish. Don't you ar outsider you be there.... you are not a true Fenlander unless you can trace your lineage back to Boudicca actually though the Fens have got a little better in the last 10 years, as they have had an influx of Cambridge folk seeking bigger properties.... but yep I know exactly what you mean. Lovely places to visit, but mmm there is a reason why the houses are cheaper out that way

@Genevieva sorry what is the sanguinity in reference to? I'm confused.