Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

Oh and since I'm considering a move back to the outskirts (and rural) areas of the area I grew up in, I am going to ask if it's a good idea considering everything I've mentioned. The reason why I'm considering those areas is because they're somewhat familiar and I'll always know where to go to touch base with those who are ethnically/culturally the same as me!

To the PP asking if I'm thinking of jeopardising good schools, tolerance, cultural aspects of London, etc. for a bigger, better house- yes. That's what it is. As fickle and superficial as that sounds- I want baby to have room to grow. I wouldn't ever think of leaving London but we cannot afford a house in the area we're living in atm. We've got a lovely flat but I think we're going to outgrow it soon :/

As a previous poster suggested, greater Manchester is a possible area. I'm guessing the OP is talking about Oldham if she's referring to riots in Northern towns. But Saddleworth (just outside Oldham)has some lovely small village schools. We've not experienced any racism and the schools are mostly white, in fact a lot of the schools twin with schools in more urban areas to give them a more rounded education and view of the world.

Moving to the UK does not quite translate the same appreciation and adoption of host values. The discourse is framed in terms of what the host culture should do to make migrants more comfortable.

Really, have the government been knocking on your door asking how you've made the Asian family next door feel welcome?

@discopisco what if you moved very close to the family connections you mentioned? You'd be assured of having support nearby.

The only place I've experienced racism was in London funnily enough. It was a very deprived area with a lot of immigration (although not the same background as me). And the only place we're been looked at funny as a mixed family has been in places with strong Asian communities. I think there is no perfect place but if you want to move, go there a few times, get a feel for the place, rent for a bit etc. Don't live in fear of hypothetical racism.

I do get this and unless you come from a minority it’s impoaaoble to understand. If I moved I would want at least a few families from my culture. I’m a 4th generation Brit but hold my culture dear to my heart. I don’t want my kids to be the only ones who don’t celebrate certain holidays, who might eat certain food and as an adult I’d want a few people who get certain phrases and certain behaviours which are unique to my culture. None of this would take away from being British and integrating into a new community but it can be very isolating to have absolutely no peer group locally

Op - totally understand about wanting a more house for your money but kids don’t need huge houses. They need best start in life you can give them and that’s stable homelife and opportunities.

You’re a new mum-you might go on to have another 3 kids - could you afford to educate them all privately?

What about opportunities for your kids? You left home sharpish - your sort of setting them up for the same.

Compromise - nearish your family but in a more affluent urburn area (helps your dh with work?).

Don’t be tempted to hold on to London flat for ever if you do move. It’s not easy being a landlord so far away.

I nearly kept my flat when I moved one hour away from London. Glad I didn’t. Too much hassle.

These threads are always fucking shocking. How do people not understand that if you’re white, you are not going to understand the prevalence of racism in various bits of the country as well as somebody who isn’t? News flash: the OP isn’t actually calling all of us racists!

I also love the double standards around “integration”. If I move to a rural village and don’t go to Tupperware parties or bake for the fete, it’s because I’m busy, but if a BAME family do the same they must be Badly Integrated. Tut.

@flamingofridays

I havent said there isnt racism in this town AT ALL. Im sure there is and like ive said there is plaves places in this town i wouldnt live because it is like going back 30 years.

Actually you did, flamingo, you said:

I live in a mill town and have actually moved to another area in the same town. There are no racism issues here. Its diverse.

You are now changing that to 'there is no racism on my street'.

Hi OP. Really appalled by the lack of insight of some of the posters on this thread. It is amusing but also tragic. I don't understand why people who have never experienced racism, because they're not from an ethnic minority, always pile in one these threads to share their experiences of not being an ethnic minority, and thus not experiencing racism. Like, how is that helpful to the OP at all ? Can you not see/understand how you really have nothing to add to this conversation? Privileged people just need to get their two pence worth on EVERYTHING even things they know nothing about, it's really odd.

I am an ethnic minority but I often pass as white, will often give an anglicised nickname, but if I give my proper name (in professional contexts or whatever) then I'm 'outed' as being an ethnic minority instantly. It is really interesting throughout my life seeing how people react and treat me very differently depending on what ethnicity they percieve me to be as (and also very sad for the most part).

I don't live or come from any of the places you've mentioned, so can't comment on them, however from what you and others have said, I'd be considering moving but perhaps to a bigger, more diverse city, but also somewhere that is much cheaper and will enable you to have the kind of house you want? And maybe not too far from your family so you can visit reasonably regularly? I'm thinking maybe Manchester or Liverpool? I don't know that much about Manchester other than occasional visiting, but it's obviously much cheaper than London, there are some naice areas still, and it's generally very diverse as a city. I live in Liverpool and am from here. I love it, it's very diverse, but I'd still be careful about what areas I'd live in, unfortunately. But it's very affordable for a Londoner, even in naice areas that are still fairly diverse. And lots of good schools. And not super far from your family.

@Antigon, I do appreciate this country. I didn’t grow up here and I know how harsh life can be if you are born into a country where your opportunities are circumscribed by your connections or lack thereof, the economic status of your family and your gender.
I’m also not saying the US is perfect in any way, but police racism is one facet of its society (deplorable as it is), not the whole story. Many immigrants go there and are enthusiastic about a sense of shared American values. It doesn’t seem to happen so much here.

@IdiotsIdiotsEverywhere

I have no firsthand experience of this, I'm white living in England. I think the bigger issues are when there are large numbers of one culture gathered and living in one area of town. It creates an 'us V them' culture and promotes segregation. I think one family, or a few families, would get less attention than if you lived in a heavily populated Asian area.

The UK is full of towns where large numbers of white people live in area. I know white families who move specifically to white areas.

Why isn't this a problem? White people should also make the effort to integrate.

Hear hear, tricycletops.

I haven't had time to read the whole thread, but where I live, Wolverhampton, is very diverse, and there don't seem to be any problems between the various communities. In spite of its reputation there are some very pleasant areas to live, and the countryside is easily accessible. The vast majority of schools are 'good' with a few 'outstanding', and the few 'requires improvement' seem to be popular with parents.

I'd go for a big Northern city if I were you. Good schools, cheaper housing, and lots of diversity.
My DD is mixed race (my DC are adopted so she's the odd one out). We live in a smaller Northern city and there's a fairly large Asian population (but it's not an insular community as much as in some places) plus other smaller groups.
DD notices who's got what colour skin and that's a good thing IMO. Otherwise how can we talk to her about her heritage?

@whataboutbob

I do appreciate this country

I didn't grow up in this country

So do minorities. In what ways do you appreciate this country that minorities don't?

And it's strange that you say you didn't grow up here but in your other post you seem to see yourself as the host culture. Is this because you're white?

babdoc, while obviously I’m pleased that your black Muslim BIL isn’t experiencing racism in rural Norfolk, to me it sounds as if his experience may be buffered by there being only one of him, and the fact that he’s married to a white woman, making him ‘exotic’ and unthreatening. I think his experience might be very different if his father, brothers and male cousins came to visit, and spent time standing about publicly, talking in their own language.

And it might be very different still if these family members decided rural Norfolk was lovely, and bought several houses in the same street.

Am literally the only asian in an all white village. Everyone is lovely. We've found you get what you put in. If you are friendly and take part in things, people warm up to you.

Why in particular would you want to move back to the outskirts of where youmused to live and "escaped from". You would probably be better off moving out of London to provide your dc with the life you desire but staying close enough to enjoy London still or even commutable distance. Cambridge has quite a few Asian families and the schools are in the main good. You can get to the coast for day trips and London is 45 mins on the train.

I think you may regret going home and feel constrained by it but may welcome the adventure of a new area. Just a thought.

Racism only occurs in the lower classes in my experience. It’s easily avoided by not mixing with these kinds of people if it bothers you so much. We’re a mixed family living in a very white area. Our child goes to a very white school. The worst we’ve had are very innocent yet awkward questions from shopkeepers and the like. I wouldn’t let something so easily avoided stop you from living where you want.

@Racecardriver so bloody naive. You never heard of covert racism. Trust me the upper classes can be as racist as any 'lower' class Joe Bloggs. You've got your head stuck in a hole the ground. Covert racism google it

Since I posted this morning the thread has had some additional comments - taken a different turn. I don't think just because peoplea re white they shoujld not be allowed to comment on racism threads. If Northumberalnd 3% white then it is 97% of the people there who will be the majoirty of new neighbours and hearing their views is surely useful too not just the 3% who are white.

it sounds like moving a bit further into the country from where the poster was brought up to a lovely bigger house where the baby has a lot of sapce but perhaps commutable to the nearest town eg for a good secondary school might work fine and family could visit from the city. I can't imagine in an English village in Yorkshire (we have family in Yorkshire) if someone went along with their baby to mums and toddlers at the village hall or there was someone new wanting to joint the cricket team that they would be rejected because they weren't white. Whether you want the child in a primary school where most peoplea re white is the next issue I suppose. My son was the only white boy in his class a few years ago and that was not a problem, although anyone not white on this thread will say that is utterly different and I have no right to comment I suppose . For us and his friends they are all just humans who get along fine.

@flamingo
How can you say there’s no racism in your town village just because there are a few Asian or black families and you haven’t noticed it I’m sure in the town I grew up in the eighties and nineties thought the same but I experienced it to the extent I couldn’t wait to move out.
My sister took the root of staying married a white man who puts her down constantly and tells his daughter that she’s better than her mum due to being half white.

Xenia

I don't think just because peoplea re white they shoujld not be allowed to comment on racism threads.

Can you quote who said this? I don't think anyone has.