Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

OP - really think this through . Save money but moving back nearer home but not that near and a place with crap schools. Doesn’t sound like a saving and how near family support would you be? Also, once you’ve moved it will be very hard to go back to London.

How about a northern city like Manchester?

I know little of the north but my father moved us out of London in the 70s to Home Counties. My df English my dm Indian. At first she hated it as pined for family. 40 years on she hates the entire nw London areas and avoids going.

In terms of our family, people were curious I suppose. I grew up in the skinhead era so there some minor stuff. The people who really stared at us were Asians and although df shrugged it off, dm is quite resentful. At primary I guess people thought we were ‘exotic’ and my dm was the most popular person with the other kids.

In school I got little hassle (have English surname and although not looking English I dont look Indian). People knew who we were as a small suburb of big town. I was self contained and tough. My parents supportive.

Funilly enough, after living my adult life in London, I’ve come back to live by my mum (elderly). It’s full of Asians now! Probably more here than in my ds class back in London. People at ds new school do mix more.

I think this segregation thing is fairly new. I recall mixing more as a youngster. London has its fair share of segregation, too.

My main concern for you is rural life (huge change) - and what you say is a bad school.
It makes little sense in sacrificing your dc opportunities/education for a big house? Private school costly and no doubt miles away?

You know the area and you’ve expressed concerns as well.

lewismam how bloody rude! It's not us and them, or grouping together. Most people naturally go towards people who seem similar to them and the not speaking English? I'm born and raised in England and yet I speak Swedish to my children even in public(gasp) because they already speak fluent English and I want them to practice Swedish as much as possible.
I also naturally gravitate towards people who seem similar to me in clothes or interests, be they white black or brown. I'm not grouping myself I look for commonalities as would you!
Also I 'behave' like a Swedish person not English so would that put you off me, or am I forgiven because I have white skin?

Itsnotadonedeal it sounds like you've kind of sold out on your culture which is fine for you.

But you sound quite arrogant about people who do wish to retain their culture, whether that's a mother tongue, religious festivals, worship, food etc etc

A multicultural society is not one where everyone pretends to be as white as they can be. It's about living cohesively whilst celebrating everyone's differences.

@sosmooth I suspect postsers like @LewisMam have no issue with Swedes speaking their language in public. Unfortunately it's Asians they usually have a problem with and are seen as refusing to 'integrate'.

And yet I wonder when was the last time @LewisMam invited the Sikh neighbour in a turban or a Muslim neighbour in hijab over for a cup of tea.

Sorry dodgy predictive text.

donedeal, but, bar recipes, none of what you’ve listed is culture-specific. Dislike of wastefulness, a strong academic ethos and multilingualism are not linked to any specific culture. And as Antigon says, you sound rather dismissive of those who choose differently.about what events of ‘culture’ they choose to practice and pass on.

What’s your point, bob?

@llangennith

OP you're coming across as quite racist yourself.

And yet no examples of how OP is coming across as racist. Typical.

My (white) sister is married to a black Muslim African. They live in a very rural village in Norfolk, where he is the only non white person for miles. They say they don’t get any racism, but they experience “reverse racism” - people fall over themselves to be MORE welcoming and polite than they would be to a white man, for fear of being thought racist! My BIL is treated as some sort of celebrity in the local supermarket, and grumpy bus drivers always say hello to him after grunting at or ignoring their white passengers.
I suspect, OP, that you might encounter worse racism in cities than you would in rural villages. In a village, everyone gets to know you personally, and it’s harder to attach hate labels to someone you know and interact with, than to have a prejudice against a whole nation or culture that you’ve lumped together as outsiders on an “us and them” basis.

@whataboutbob er what? Or should I say what a pile of codswallop.

@whataboutbob

OP, this country has provided your family with a home and opportunities which have seen you money from working class to educated professional with real life choitin one generation. Is there any appreciation of that fact?

This country has provided you with the same opportunities too. What appreciation do you have? Or is it because you're white (presumably) you take it as your due?

You’re getting some horrid responses because you want to do the best by your family. I’m white Irish but don’t eat Irish stew very often or go to confession - doesn’t mean I’ve ‘sold out’ or lost my heritage. To suggest otherwise is simply racist.

Here Inn tiny group of villages in the south we are surprisingly diverse. Nobody really makes a big deal of it. We recognise differences and respect them but take people as we find them. We have gay couples (known as ‘the boys’ despite being in their 50s but included in everything and much loved), an Italian family, a chap in a wheelchair with a brain injury, a single, dancing, 78 year old who joins in with everything, a Mauritian man and his Kiwi wife, a Sri Lankan family. Lots of people with more in common than they have differences.

I think rural communities are more tolerant and accepting than many urban communities. We live in close contact with our neighbours and house prices make it a bit self selecting. No ‘wife beater’ vest wearing, St George’s flag tattooed, insult hurling yobs here. We much prefer discussing wine bargains, dogs and gardening.

There is more than one way to upset some people in more xenophobic area, one is definitely to have a different skin colour, but being foreign/having a foreign accent/speaking foreign to your children is definitely another. We live in a bigger city now to blend in more as it's tiring and boring dealing with raised eyebrows, England flags, Brexit posters, etc. I am astonished at posters claiming they never heard any racism, I grew up in a rural area which was pretty much all white and racist talk was extremely common in my town.

Well I think it’s sad that the discourse is usually framed in terms of what sacrifices the incoming culture makes, but the benefits aren’t so readily mentioned. Theres a reason so many people want to come here. Stability, rule of law, opportunities which don’t exist in the home country for people who are poor/ not connected etc.

I can't believe some of the comments on here! I really wish people would read the full thread before commenting/trolling. At no point did I say ALL schools/people outside of London/beyond the M25 are crappy and/or racist. I mentioned areas I was considering and how schools there were listed as 'requiring improvement' (if not primaries than definitely secondary schools). The race issue came from the fact that growing up, I was part of an Asian community that had very little to do with the indigenous white community- the two rarely mixed. I remember hearing comments such as "F#cking P#kis- wish they'd go back where they'd come from" or going into town with my friends and a wanker coming up close to my face and saying "P#kis don't die, the b#stards multiply- we're going to kill you all one day". That was bloody scary!!! I also remember going to certain shops- haberdashery for example with my mum and her being ignored by the old deary at the counter and when challenged being told "we don't want your lots money- go somewhere else". But, I digress, the people coming on here and calling me a snob and precious have clearly had their (white privileged) nerve touched. Re: segregation; has anyone ever wondered why communities remain segregated? It's sticking with those that are similar for familiarity, safety and a sense of belonging- what they probably don't get from being around the 'other' community. And it's a two way thing, if people really have a bee in their bonnet about Indian people not mixing then maybe they should make the effort and learn their language/customs!!!

Thank you so much for the other posters who have come on and shared their experiences and advice- I really, really appreciate it.

Well I think it’s sad that the discourse is usually framed in terms of what sacrifices the incoming culture makes, but the benefits aren’t so readily mentioned.

What does this even mean bob? The contribution of minorities make to the UK is vast, not simply in terms of the economy. It sounds like you're saying minorities get all the benefits of our society but don't contribute?

I’ve just read what areas you’re considering and I’d be tempted to go more towards Manchester as in the surrounding towns to where you’ve mentioned OP I have supported people in moving due to racism. But I am confused by your crappy schools comment as those areas have excellent schools in my opinion.

MachoManRandySavage

I live rurally. My child also goes to a private school. There are also children of all ethnicity who attend the school. Yes, it is predominantly white, however there certainly is NO racism, the parents and children are certainly not ostracised in any way.

A non-white resident may have a different perspective (or they may not). This is a very strong statement to make.

I cannot envisage a situation in which someone would have their windows smashed in. I'd say there would be far more chance of that in London! However, perhaps not all rural communities are as tolerant, it depends where you move to.

Racism is not just having your windows smashed in. It's usually the micro aggressions that hurt the most.

Yes minorities make contributions of course, and that is abundantly celebrated in the media and in public discourse. But there are real advantages to being here and sometimes that doesn’t get stated. It has been said that when people emigrate to the US, they more readily value and adopt US values and identity. Moving to the UK does not quite translate the same appreciation and adoption of host values. The discourse is framed in terms of what the host culture should do to make migrants more comfortable.

Well said @discopisco

I'm Asian. I moved out of London to a smaller city but I was sick of London and really wanted to go. I live in a multicultural city but travel to rural areas for work. I've never experienced racism here. My dcs haven't experienced racism at school even though they are mixed race. The only open racism I have ever experienced was at my predominantly Asian school because I was the wrong kind of Asian. My friend was spat at in the street for the same reason very recently. Both in London. You don't sound like you want to leave, so why do it? It's a difficult move and if you're going thinking it's going to be crap it will be. There are many places just outside London with huge Asian populations - Bromley, Croydon (don't move to actual Croydon!!) Purley, Morden to name just the areas I know.

In your shoes I'd avoid areas where there are a lot of Asians already like certain places around Manchester, Wythenshawe, Leicester, Birmingham etc. We're in a small town, not a village but not a city, very little immigration and never had any issue. Everyone knows everyone to a degree so you have to integrate and racism is not tolerated. It's not big enough to lead to segregation, not small enough to have a village mentality. Works for us anyway. Schools are good near me.

@whataboutbob

I ask again, how do YOU show your appreciation for the opportunities this country has shown you?

You don't seem to want to answer this question but are going off on a tangent about the USA (which has a massive problem with racism and where black people often fear the poli).

i wouldn't suggest south wales, the schools are crappy and i've heard a lot of people use racist language about asian people and anyone that aren't welsh. i moved from england, it's really backward and the people are very insular. i'm moving back to england next month.