To think mumsnet is full of hate crime?

[Whyisthisacceptable]

The whole active thread list is always taken up by tons of trans bashing threads. How is it acceptable? Anything relating to anyone transgender is bashed. If this was against another minority of people, race, sexuality, religion it would be taken down and reported as hate crime. I don’t understand how the feminism board makes it acceptable?

Yeah, that, RatRolyPoly.

also categed
Op an actual crime has to be committed before hate crimes have taken place. So in response to your op i don't think mumsnet is a hot bed of hate crime. It is however a fairly safe place to be able to learn more and discuss concerns. No one needs to agree but everyone can have their say in reative safety.
You'd think. I agree with you that it's a good place to learn about both sides of the debate - like I have done from being on here.
There is the side that if you don't agree with the extreme feminism "side" though that you get piled on/shouted down/name called.
Never noticed it when I posted it GC.

See, Rat said it too. It's a forest of Morton's Forks, you can't win, even if you're not trying to "win" on FWR, they are.

She is inspiring and incredibly brave
She actually is facing hate, if that screenshot is not a one-off

When people claim that trying to keep single sex spaces is hate
or saying that transwomen are men is hate

they devalue the courage of those like that transwoman and like GC feminists who face such hatred from TRAs

There is one side spouting hate daily, trying to ban discussion, even threatening violence and it isn't the GC feminists doing that

I have tried plenty of times (and I've seen others posters on here doing so too). Every time I was abused, called a hand maiden, a TRA, an MRA and then repeatedly that I was a man. Then the ganging up starts, so you try to have a discussion but you face a barrage of demands to define woman or something. Then when you try to answer one question a load more are posted and then you are accused of ignoring them, or plopping, or not answering because you can't when the reality is that you can't keep up with the constant twisting or changing of the subject

It's like arguing with any fundamentalist from Brexit to vaxxers

Yes, this!

The Brexit threads are exactly the same lol (even though I voted remain.) They go for haha gotcha try again tactics too, it's fascinating.
Chuck in Insta threads too, there's some serious fanatics there in for conspiracy theories that follow the same type of script lol.

It isn't hate if a Tory posts and 95% of posters vigorously disagree, even call them callous, rich elite etc

It isn't even shutting them down

It's having a viewpoint that is a minority on this site

There is one side spouting hate daily, trying to ban discussion, even threatening violence and it isn't the GC feminists doing that

The problem with Twitter is everyone heard the voices they're listening for.

I only inhabit mumsnet-land, and I'm afraid round here the one-sidedness only really cuts one way...

*hears

**Verbeena
I think often there is a main view on a thread and the views of others are often attacked as being unwanted, this can be across all threads and most boards. However, compared to twitter I do feel it's a fairly safe place to put across your pov. (That's not to say there aren't posters on mumsnet who are cruel and vicious at times).

I feel I have learned loads about different issues on mumsnet over the time i have been here anyway.

MN is probably mostly Remain, because it is mostly left & centre
So Leave posters are a minority

On Brexit threads, errors of fact get called out
That is not shutting down

Brexit is another topic where some think that feelz matter more than facts
It is a clash of attitudes

However, compared to twitter I do feel it's a fairly safe place to put across your pov. (That's not to say there aren't posters on mumsnet who are cruel and vicious at times).

Yeah, I agree. It is. Doesn't stop the pile on and personal attacks you're likely to get if you disagree though, which is intimidating and people will stop posting.

I'm not on Twitter

Are there lots of GC feminists posting such hate to polite posters ?
or the fav "Die in a fire" ?

Are GC feminists threatening rape, arson, knife attacks ?

Have GC feminists assaulted TRA speakers in rl ?

On MN, do GC feminists keep asking MNHQ to ban the views of those who think TWAW ?

There is one side spouting hate daily, trying to ban discussion, even threatening violence and it isn't the GC feminists doing that

Well, firstly, I have friends who can tell you otherwise. Secondly, it's not a winner-takes-all unpleasantness contest. Even if the GC crowd are being marginally less unpleasant they're still too unpleasant for most people I know to want to have anything to do with them, and even perpetuating it by arguing with it is a moral line plenty of people aren't prepared to cross any more.

I'm not on Twitter Are there lots of GC feminists posting such hate to polite posters ? or the fav "Die in a fire" ?Are GC feminists threatening rape, arson, knife attacks ?Have GC feminists assaulted TRA speakers in rl ?

Is it an either or you're being more hateful than me so therefore I'm not being hateful?
No.
It's horrible whoever it's coming from.
GC feminists post on Twitter saying stuff like you'll never be a woman, just as one example. It doesn't have to be as extreme as what you said (can't bring myself to type it, just tried and deleted) but you know what I mean.
All just as bad whatever side the extreme is coming from.

Imo, vigorous debate - without being threatened with violence - is one of the many virtues of MN

MN deletes personal attacks and hate speech, which is excellent

I don't know how else we help someone feel less "piled on," if they are say a Tory, or anyone else here with a very minority viewpoint
We can't say that the 90% who disagree shouldn't post
By definition, a minority viewpoint is likely to face umpteen opposing posts

We can't say errors of fact can't be corrected,
or demand that feelings change a man into a woman

In the site thread about the most popular boards, MN said that FWR was only behind AIBU and Chat in the number of hits, which is amazing
Since most people posting are GC feminists - I agree the overwhelming majority are - it seems likely to be the majority view on MN

Well, transwomen will never be women - I wouldn't post that to someone or say it in rl, but that is a fact
so I don't regard it as hateful

It would be unkind to say that to a person
but "hate" is far too strong

Well, all I can say is I'm sorry there is no appetite to re-engage, though I understand your reasoning and perspective there. I think it's a shame for all sorts of reasons, but I'm still in the place where I am happy there is a public place I can discuss what is going on without being banned, threatened or anything else.

I do appreciate FWR isn't a welcoming neutral space particularly, and that's unfortunate and a product of the way the conversation has developed elsewhere. I'm going to continue to post in the manner I do because I'm not anti-trans or abusive or a bigot, and I really don't think any of the regulars are either, even though all of us can have little patience at times.

I shall try and bear in mind the perspectives you've shared here, though, and for god's sake, if you see me being a hypocrite about something point it out, because I'm not interested in scoring points or winning, but I'm human and will make mistakes and missteps, and I want to do better. But I didn't arrive at my present position from ignorance and not investigation, so a little less of the unfocused accusations of transphobia for not thinking transwomen are women as though that means I think they aren't humans would be good.

Violence, or threats of violence, are in a totally different category
Those come only from the TRA side

Even if the GC crowd are being marginally less unpleasant they're still too unpleasant for most people I know to want to have anything to do with them, and even perpetuating it by arguing with it is a moral line plenty of people aren't prepared to cross any more.

This, as I said it's not an either or. Just because you're not giving physical threats doesn't mean you're being any less intimidating or taking the high ground.

GC feminists have congregated on MN, because most other places where we would normally debate this issue
have banned our views
often under threat of losing jobs or career

We'd normally be debating on other sites, in places of work, voluntary organisations, clubs, church etc

So that's why MN can seem like GC Central
because it's the main place that hasn't banned us

It's also why we fight so hard for our right to debate here

tbh, if GC feminist weren't being banned elsewhere, I'd have made a few posts on the subject and then not bothered again
It's the ban - and the continual attempts to ban debate on MN here - that keep me and probably many others posting
It's natural to fight much harder when our views are being banned in so many places

I'm going to continue to post in the manner I do because I'm not anti-trans or abusive or a bigot

Some are at least one of those things though, and get applauded, and agreed with. Which is why people have eyes opened and/or stop engaging.

It's the ban - and the continual attempts to ban debate on MN here - that keep me and probably many others posting

I don't think anyone's banning debate? Just saying there's no need for those who "have a problem with all" to spout their hate here.
That shouldn't be allowed.
At least one on this thread does, but this thread is by the main civilised and both sides getting to speak instead of either validated or minimised depending on what "side" you're on.
Bring on debate. This one's been nice. The one's in feminist board, not so much though as you basically get told to bog off or laughed at.

Physical threats are vastly more serious
and real life violence is more serious still
That's what TRAs do and GC feminists don't

One side contains violent men
One side is just bolshy women

Physical threat is the basis of all dictatorships - keep down opposition by making them fear physically
Almost everyone can be intimidated into silence by sufficient fear of being beaten or murdered

However, even if I'm the only poster on a thread with my views and everyone else is posting the opposite view, or telling me I'm wrong,
I'd keep posting, no problem

I wouldn't feel intimidated unless something is done to make me feel scared
or by the kind of hate-filled posts that poor transwoman on Twitter was facing, like several "truscum" have reported here.
That would drag me down
She is so brave

Yes, you've made that plain enough. And I'm now at the point where I'm looking at the complaint and wondering what the purpose is really. I've posted here in an attempt to try and do what I always do, which is clarify, engage, and communicate.

My first post on the thread was immediately jumped on as an example of extreme views because I tried to explain that female boundaries were the heart of the issue for GC posters, and that was why it was an issue if someone ignored a request not to use the @ function. I didn't call anyone a handmaiden or a man or an MRA, and I got plenty of bad faith snark from the posters on this thread who are mostly of a mind that FWR posters are harpies that jump all over any dissent and shut it down with our crazywickedskills.

I'm sad that despite quite a few pages of reasonable conversation, the upshot is that it doesn't matter and that the situation will be FWR just being sniped at from a distance as a pit of irredeemable awful bigotry that should be shut down despite any attempt from us to invite different voices because not everyone on FWR will agree with the different voices. Not really sure what else I can do.

VerbeenaBeeks

Yes, I'd like to know too. Anyone like to define bigot?

You do understand that a "bigot" is not defined as a bad thing?

"Have a problem with them all"

They should be allowed to express their views, of course, if they keep to the MN posting rules
Do you want them not to be allowed, or did I misunderstand you ? Apologies if so

My personal - not the hive GC - view, is that I don't mind "genuine" transwomen using into our loos or changing rooms
"Genuine" meaning trying to "pass", being quiet and respectful

I've no right to say everyone must have my bounds, including those with strong religious views, or victims of previous assault
I fully accept many other women, who would previously allowed this, now wouldn't because "we gave an inch and they stole a mile"

Where I would ban all transwomen

prisons
womens' refuges
womens' hospital wards
Competitive sport where strength speed etc make a difference
Awards meant for women
probably others I missed, because it's almost bedtime

The 1st 3 are because these are not voluntary or brief actions
These are vulnerable women who have no choice but to be there and to be there for more than the 5 minutes to wash hands

"Sport" is because it would not be a fair contest and would kill womens competitive sport

"Awards for women" is because these are specifically for women, not for the many other disadvantaged groups
e.g. not for BAME men, gay men, disabled men, poor wc men